Setting detailed search arcs less effective than full search arcs?

[CaptBeefheart]

If you do a search (no pun intended) on this forum you'll find someone covered this pretty extensively. From memory, the upshot was custom arcs didn't help find the enemy.

Cheers,
CB

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

This topic comes up over and over again, ad nauseam. My experience shows me this is just not so. If used properly they work just fine.

That's interesting, my experience is telling me the opposite. NO archs works way better. [:D]

[rustysi]

Rule of thumb. When reading threads on this topic (or any other) find what Alfred says and take that as Gospel.[;)]

[&o][&o][&o]

[Sardaukar]

GetAssista's test here is interesting:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4905796

[Trugrit]

I don’t think anyone has ever covered this extensively.

I do know that the search arcs are not broken, they are working as designed.
They work extremely well in certain situations for someone who knows how to use them.

The main thing with search arcs is focus, focus, focus.
You don’t want to fan them out wide, one plane per search sector.
You want a small number of sectors and the search sector colors to be
black if possible to get both air phases.

Take a look at the run I did below.

You can figure out which planes are being used for a mission by looking
at the plane fatigue after the mission is run.

The below group at Midway was standing down so there was zero plane fatigue at the start.

I set the group for a single sector search by setting the arc start and finish to the same value.
I’m not sure how many players know that you can do this?

12 ready planes in the group and the group is set to 100% search at max range in one sector.

When the turn is run the fatigue numbers tell me that all 12 planes were used on the mission.
I got detection on a single Japanese Battleship at maximum range on the first try.
This will increase your chance of detection at longer ranges.

My assumption is that all 12 planes search that one sector one plane at a time.
So you have twelve chances to get detection in that sector every air phase.

If I leave it set this way I think I’ll get almost 100% immediate detection on every enemy
ship that enters and stops it’s movement in this sector even at max range.
This makes the search arcs very valuable for covering straits and choke points at long range.

In my experience if you don’t set search arcs you will only get long range
detection much less than 50% of the time.

[Trugrit]

More…..

The real advantage is multiple air groups working together.

The screenshot below is with the “Z” Hot key turned on. It does not show one air group searching three sectors.
It shows three air groups with each air group searching one sector only. That widens the area.

Each group has 12 ready planes.

The Japanese Task Force it has detected at long range consists of only a single CA.

I think this setup will detect every enemy task force which stops movement in the zone
Almost 100% of the time. Of course less planes less chance of detection.

But…..I have not run it out over many turns.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Also, don't search further than 12 hexes.

Ranges higher than that dilute the search intensity to all search area. E.g. some planes have extended range of 24 hexes and so. Yes, you will search that far, but poorly, for whole area (which makes sense considering how much area increases).

I search at maximum range all the time. I just know what I'm getting into. I'd rather have the chance to spot something out that far than intentionally handicap myself.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


I don’t think anyone has ever covered this extensively.

I do know that the search arcs are not broken, they are working as designed.
They work extremely well in certain situations for someone who knows how to use them.

The main thing with search arcs is focus, focus, focus.
You don’t want to fan them out wide, one plane per search sector.
You want a small number of sectors and the search sector colors to be
black if possible to get both air phases.

Take a look at the run I did below.

You can figure out which planes are being used for a mission by looking
at the plane fatigue after the mission is run.

The below group at Midway was standing down so there was zero plane fatigue at the start.

I set the group for a single sector search by setting the arc start and finish to the same value.
I’m not sure how many players know that you can do this?

12 ready planes in the group and the group is set to 100% search at max range in one sector.

When the turn is run the fatigue numbers tell me that all 12 planes were used on the mission.
I got detection on a single Japanese Battleship at maximum range on the first try.
This will increase your chance of detection at longer ranges.

My assumption is that all 12 planes search that one sector one plane at a time.
So you have twelve chances to get detection in that sector every air phase.

If I leave it set this way I think I’ll get almost 100% immediate detection on every enemy
ship that enters and stops it’s movement in this sector even at max range.
This makes the search arcs very valuable for covering straits and choke points at long range.

In my experience if you don’t set search arcs you will only get long range
detection much less than 50% of the time.

What I mean by broken is does not seem to work better. Which is the point of setting more detailed search arcs.

But interesting analysis. I thought the colored arcs meant morning, afternoon, and night. Green, Blue, Black. You are setting them all to black and that works best?

[RangerJoe]

What I mean by broken is does not seem to work better. Which is the point of setting more detailed search arcs.

Then it is not broken. What you appear to mean is that it is not more effective.

The detailed search arcs are for when you know where the enemy is coming from and/or other areas are already covered.

[Moltrey]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
I thought the colored arcs meant morning, afternoon, and night. Green, Blue, Black. You are setting them all to black and that works best?

I am pretty sure what Trugrit meant is that Black means BOTH morning and evening, due to having enough aircraft to cover such a search. I think the only way to specifically search at night is to change the initial squadron mission time from DAY to NIGHT (purple color text).

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
I thought the colored arcs meant morning, afternoon, and night. Green, Blue, Black. You are setting them all to black and that works best?

I am pretty sure what Trugrit meant is that Black means BOTH morning and evening, due to having enough aircraft to cover such a search. I think the only way to specifically search at night is to change the initial squadron mission time from DAY to NIGHT (purple color text).

+1

[Moltrey]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

What I mean by broken is does not seem to work better. Which is the point of setting more detailed search arcs.

Then it is not broken. What you appear to mean is that it is not more effective.

The detailed search arcs are for when you know where the enemy is coming from and/or other areas are already covered.

My question for Trugrit is this:
What do you do as Allied early on when you have bases like Johnston, Palmyra, etc that only have 4, 6 or 12 aircraft period? I do appreciate the example and will make use of it in the straits and choke points.

[RangerJoe]

Personally, I use those places at 50% search and 50% training. At first training for Search then ASW. After they get trained up, one can also train the pilots in either Naval Bombing or Torpedo attacks. Once well trained and/or if morale and aircraft maintenance is a problem, add some rest. But I only set the search distance to 12.

I like to use the Hudsons and especially the Long Range model with Radar for Naval Search. Once the Naval bombers get radar, Gary Burghoff [;)] will help let you know where the enemy is.

[Kull]

There's one definite benefit to Search Arcs - you can hit the z-key and KNOW where your planes are searching and at what range and if there are any gaps in your coverage. Sometimes those "gaps" can be air units with undefined search areas, but it's easy to check nearby bases to be sure.

As for whether arcs work or don't, I think it's telling that Alfred assures us they do, and the programmer had seven years of player input to look at and fix problems. Hard to believe that something this obvious would have escaped our (and his) attention.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

What I mean by broken is does not seem to work better. Which is the point of setting more detailed search arcs.

Then it is not broken. What you appear to mean is that it is not more effective.

The detailed search arcs are for when you know where the enemy is coming from and/or other areas are already covered.

My question for Trugrit is this:
What do you do as Allied early on when you have bases like Johnston, Palmyra, etc that only have 4, 6 or 12 aircraft period? I do appreciate the example and will make use of it in the straits and choke points.

In cases like this, I just set them to 50-80% search, depending on the plane/pilots, and don't set arcs. If they get lucky, they get lucky. I don't want to restrict their coverage and make the wrong guess about where I need coverage.

[rustysi]

As for whether arcs work or don't, I think it's telling that Alfred assures us they do, and the programmer had seven years of player input to look at and fix problems. Hard to believe that something this obvious would have escaped our (and his) attention.

+1

[rustysi]

Let's see if I can get this right, been a while since I posted a screenie.

There's one definite benefit to Search Arcs - you can hit the z-key and KNOW where your planes are searching and at what range and if there are any gaps in your coverage. Sometimes those "gaps" can be air units with undefined search areas, but it's easy to check nearby bases to be sure.

You mean like this...

Forgot how to post a screenie...[&:]

I'll try again later...[8|]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Let's see if I can get this right, been a while since I posted a screenie.

There's one definite benefit to Search Arcs - you can hit the z-key and KNOW where your planes are searching and at what range and if there are any gaps in your coverage. Sometimes those "gaps" can be air units with undefined search areas, but it's easy to check nearby bases to be sure.

You mean like this...

Forgot how to post a screenie...[&:]

I'll try again later...[8|]

CTRL + Prt|Scr, then paste the resulting image into something like Paint 3D. Then crop it if you want and save it to a *.jpg. Then attach the picture to a post. You can "edit" your own post and then add a picture to that post.

[rustysi]

Well I finally got it. Thanks for the assist Joe.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Well I finally got it. Thanks for the assist Joe.

You are welcome.