<t> It isn't that strange to actually backup your claims by examples, in fact that is what separates an argument from random thoughts. <br/>
The reason is that different war games have different scales, if something works on the tactical level it doesn't need to work on much higher. So if you can ...

<t> Again I'm perfectly aware what ZOC is, I'm asking you to start providing arguments for your propositions. <br/>
"Wargame standard" isn't one, it is a appeal to popular belief, one of the many fallacies in arguing (or if you prefer debating). <br/>
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If you want to make a point then by all ...

<r> <QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: ColinWright<br/>
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Okay -- so argue for reduced ZOC costs. Don't argue for a system where units are blocking hexes they haven't entered yet.
<e>[/quote]</e></QUOTE>
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I would rather not brake something that isn't broken. Removing the ZOC and ...

<r>
<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Panama<br/>
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Let me point out something. A hex located next to a unit is not unopposed. It is assumed that a unit occupying a hex is contesting the adjacent hexes through active patrols and zones of fire. This has been a wargame standard since zones of ...

<r>
<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: ColinWright<br/>
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<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay<br/>
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<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Panama<br/>
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All of the turn based wargame, for that matter all the wargames, recognize that fact<e>[/quote]</e></QUOTE>
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Now come ...

<r>
<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Panama<br/>

<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: madner<br/>

<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Panama<br/>
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Now, I ask you. If it took more time to get the last unit to the locaticon it is in how can it possibly effect the defending units path of retreat if ...

<r> <QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Panama<br/>
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Now, I ask you. If it took more time to get the last unit to the locaticon it is in how can it possibly effect the defending units path of retreat if it is not involved in the combat? It's not there if all of the other units attack. It is there ...

<r> <QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Panama<br/>
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<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: madner<br/>
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The change would produce much larger historical anomalies then it would solve, as Norms intention was to make the units pay with MP. Now you would pay both the ZOC MP and force the turn burn ...

<t> Or it could represent the order to clear the path, while using other units to complete the encirclement/destruction. <br/>
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The change would produce much larger historical anomalies then it would solve, as Norms intention was to make the units pay with MP. Now you would pay both the ZOC ...

<r>
<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Panama<br/>
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<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: el cid<br/>
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<B><s>[b]</s>Encirclement time wrap<e>[/b]</e></B><br/>
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Just to note one fact that you already know, that on the case were you attack on the same turn you encircle, the unit ...

Remove the strategic bombers and make some events to give them to the allied player for one or two turns. They shouldn't interdict either&nbsp;[:)]

<t> This is becoming frustrating. Your logic is fallacious, where you are reading far to much into what Zetterling wrote to support a thesis that is devoid of any support in facts. <br/>
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I don't think it even deserves a detailed answer, but a quick point.<br/>
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1. The Flak units ...

<t> Well prior to the war there was quite a debate about the proper caliber for light divisional artillery, with the US army and Wehrmacht going for the 105mm, UK for 87mm and Red Army for 7.62mm guns (which were to be replaced by 107mm artillery, starting in 1941). And the Germans had the long ...

<r> <QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay<br/>
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<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: madner<br/>
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Now that is a good argument if someone would argue that, but your argument was that due to superior allied tactics the flak units were no longer used to support ground operations ...

The unbalance is due to the scenario mechanic, and the excessive Red Army replacement. There is no need for the Sovjet player to risk much, and hence it is possible to use the pullback strategy.&nbsp;

<r> <QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay<br/>
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<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: madner<br/>
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That is indeed a very good link, but there seems to be a slight discrepancy between the claims. The 462 claim for aircraft is matched with 92 tanks and 14 armored cars. <e>[/quote]</e ...

Does that mod change the recon % of both sides as well, and at which turn did you start the attack on the MLR?&nbsp;

<t> That is indeed a very good link, but there seems to be a slight discrepancy between the claims. The 462 claim for aircraft is matched with 92 tanks and 14 armored cars. Now Normandy isn't the desert or the Ukraine, so the long range advantage is less. <br/>
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However, notice that the Flak ...

<t> Every inch had to be taken out of the cold dead hands of Red Army soldiers. <br/>
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From the German player perspective this is a lot more exciting then the usual game. I'm not that good at AARs, but every turn you have to make decisions on where to crack the armor, and how to keep the ...

<r>
<QUOTE><s>[quote]</s>ORIGINAL: PFrancis<br/>
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Since nobody risked stating what are the intellectual challenges present in a Toaw game, from the point of view of experienced players, perhaps I can, at least, have some descriptions of different strategical approaches some players have ...