Trying to better understand supply

[Chad Harrison]

Still very new to the game and trying to learn all the in's and out's. Definately a keeper though [:D]

I am trying to get a handle on the finer points of supply. I have read, re-read and then read again the very limited information in the manual about supply. I understand how to check a single units supply, and how effectively a formation distributes supply, but thats about it.

Does my entire force have tons of supply? Very limited supply? Should I stockpile supply before my offensive or are we ready to go? I have no idea how to find out any of the above.

Okay, in the situational briefing, I can clearly see under the force section my Force Supply Stockpile and Effective Supply Capability.

And, using the Supply View Options, I can see where my supply is coming from and what the program calls Trace. I have included a screenshot from a current game I have going. With the supply view setting at trace, I see the following:

1. A numerical value on top of my supply sources (sometimes all white, sometimes two colors)
2. A numerical value around my units current location which are two tone
3. A numerical value around my units current location which are solid white

**So knowing the Force Supply Stockpile, Effective Supply Capability and the trace supply view option, what can I tell in definite terms about the supply situation of my force?**

Is overall supply for my force high? Low? How far can I move without getting into supply problems? Do I have too many units for my current level of supply? If I dont attack this turn, will I have more supply stockpiled for the force next turn? What does the numerical value of the trace supply feature mean? Different color background mean?

Any help in understanding this would be greatly appreciated. I have tried to solve it with the manual many times and failed. I even attempted a forum search and came up empty.

Thanks in advance

Chad

[sPzAbt653]

There's alot involved, but I'll hit on some of it. Your force supply runs best from a friendly supply point down any intact rail line. There is a force supply radius, if it's 2 hexes, you will get the best resupply (and readiness recovery), by being within two hexes of a friendly intact rail line and not moving for the entire turn. The terain the unit is in and the terrain between the unit and rail line affects the supply ability. The farther you get away from the rail line, the more the supply capability drops.
Every scenario is different, and I find that you have to run thru one a couple times before you can get a grip on your capabilities dependant on the supply situation. Number of units has no effect on this game system, you get the same if you have 1 unit or 1,000, so don't worry about that. Supply is to individual units from the source, so not moving a unit for a turn is best for itself, but doesn't affect any other units (unless they don't move, too). The numerical value of the supply trace is a good visual aid. If your trace shows 30 near your supply point(s) but you want to conduct an offensive in an area where the trace shows a number under 20, your attack will run out of supply within 2-3 turns, usually.
Some scenarios have rail lines everywhere and high supply radius', so it won't really matter. Other scenarios have low supply and short radius' so it makes it difficult to operate (although some players like to run around in the red all the time).
Blue/white supply points are player #1's, red/white ones are player #2's. The game tinkers around with the supply trace dynamically during a turn as hex ownership changes. It's not of any importance.
HQ units boost supply to units from the same formation, and if you have any of the very nice 'supply units' in your oob, they boost supply to any unit within the supply radius of any of these supply units, and give an extra special boost to any adjacent unit, regardless of formation.
Come back with anything I missed, or anything else you have, and we/I will will gladly help.

Cheers!

[desert]

Supplies do also follow down roads and lines of communication (even rocky, muddy mountains). There are plenty of good scenarios with absolutely no rail lines, though rail does provide the highest supply. I think airfields and ports should provide supply automatically, but oh well.

[Erik2]

ORIGINAL: desert

Supplies do also follow down roads and lines of communication (even rocky, muddy mountains). There are plenty of good scenarios with absolutely no rail lines, though rail does provide the highest supply. I think airfields and ports should provide supply automatically, but oh well.

I think it is better to leave the supply from airfields and ports to the designer.
Put a supply point in them or use events to govern wether they can supply or not.
One trick is to put a supply point on the water hex next to a port, this way enemy ships may block supply to the port.

[el cid]

As far as the numbers on top of the circles it represents the maximum amount of supply a unit can possibly recover in that hex. So if the number is 30, and your unit has 48% supply, the next turn the max you will get is 48%+30%=78%.

If your unit has moved, then it will get max 2/3 of that, so in the previous example it would have the 48%+2/3*30=68%.

Also if you do not have an HQ adyacent you will get 2/3 of the 30.

And the effects are cumulative, so in an hex of 30, if you move and do not and HQ adyancent you would get 2/3*2/3*30= 13%.

Whether you wait till your units have 100% supply or not depends on the situation. If there is time, you don´t expect your enemy to get reinforcements soon, and the enemy is already set in fortified position, then you could wait to replenish your supply and rest your troops, but this is rarely the case..

[Hyding]

ORIGINAL: el cid

Also if you do not have an HQ adyacent you will get 2/3 of the 30.

And the effects are cumulative, so in an hex of 30, if you move and do not and HQ adyancent you would get 2/3*2/3*30= 13%.

Do all HQ help with receiving supplies or only the ones containing support troops?

[sPzAbt653]

A HQ without support squads functions normally. If a HQ has support squads, and some of these support squads have become casualties, then the HQ effectiveness is reduced. (Same for command squads).

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: el cid

As far as the numbers on top of the circles it represents the maximum amount of supply a unit can possibly recover in that hex. So if the number is 30, and your unit has 48% supply, the next turn the max you will get is 48%+30%=78%.

If your unit has moved, then it will get max 2/3 of that, so in the previous example it would have the 48%+2/3*30=68%.

Also if you do not have an HQ adyacent you will get 2/3 of the 30.

And the effects are cumulative, so in an hex of 30, if you move and do not and HQ adyancent you would get 2/3*2/3*30= 13%.

Whether you wait till your units have 100% supply or not depends on the situation. If there is time, you don´t expect your enemy to get reinforcements soon, and the enemy is already set in fortified position, then you could wait to replenish your supply and rest your troops, but this is rarely the case..

Thats very usefull. So all my units in the screenshot above would not be any good for any type of offensive with such low supply? Especially +7% max?

So I gather that it is better to move slowly so you dont use as much supply with the actual move itself?

[sPzAbt653]

In that screenshot, there are no rail lines, so you are relying on the supply radius (from the nearest supply point or rail line). At the lower left there are a few at 28, that's not too bad. The areas of 14 or 7, you probably would have difficulty maintaining an offensive.

Movement vs. supply expenditure is dependant upon the situation. A slow methodical advance works in some situations, keeping your force at the best possible efficiency and supply. But sometimes you need to strike deep to grab a vital objective, so forget about supply and go for it. Of course, sometimes you gain the objective but are in no shape to hold it against counterattack. Sometimes, it's enough to make me want to jump out the window. [:@]

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

In that screenshot, there are no rail lines, so you are relying on the supply radius (from the nearest supply point or rail line). At the lower left there are a few at 28, that's not too bad. The areas of 14 or 7, you probably would have difficulty maintaining an offensive.

Movement vs. supply expenditure is dependant upon the situation. A slow methodical advance works in some situations, keeping your force at the best possible efficiency and supply. But sometimes you need to strike deep to grab a vital objective, so forget about supply and go for it. Of course, sometimes you gain the objective but are in no shape to hold it against counterattack. Sometimes, it's enough to make me want to jump out the window. [:@]

I have tried in vain to find the supply radius ingame. Im sure its in the editor for each scenario, but something that important should be available ingame.

[rhinobones]

ORIGINAL: el cid
Also if you do not have an HQ adyacent you will get 2/3 of the 30.

Is this correct? I know that if a HQ unit "is" adjacent the unit receives a supply bonus but have never heard of supply being lowered because a HQ was not adjacent.

Regards, RhinoBones

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

ORIGINAL: el cid
Also if you do not have an HQ adyacent you will get 2/3 of the 30.

Is this correct? I know that if a HQ unit "is" adjacent the unit receives a supply bonus but have never heard of supply being lowered because a HQ was not adjacent.

You only get 2/3 of the stated (base) supply number unless you have an HQ, or a Supply Unit, adjacent. The "bonus" is a multiplication of the 2/3 base by 150%, or 3/2.

In the case of having only one (HQ, or Supply Unit), you end up with (2/3)*(3/2) base = 1 base.

In the case of having both, you end up with (2/3)*(3/2)^2 base = 1.5 base.

This is then further modified by the supply efficiency of the formation, which is a value between .01 and 1.0 and is another multiplicative modifier.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
I have tried in vain to find the supply radius ingame. Im sure its in the editor for each scenario, but something that important should be available ingame.

Some scenario designers are thoughtful enough to specify what it is, and for each side if it varies.

Judging from your screenshot, it looks like it is still at the default value of 4. What you should do is to make the units invisible, then count out from the last point of your fully supplied net (usually the last hex of a connected railhead at the start of your turn) along a road, and note where the first 1/4 drop occurs. The number of hexes that it remains the full value (barring mud effects on minor roads) is the supply radius.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
I have tried in vain to find the supply radius ingame. Im sure its in the editor for each scenario, but something that important should be available ingame.

Some scenario designers are thoughtful enough to specify what it is, and for each side if it varies.

Judging from your screenshot, it looks like it is still at the default value of 4. What you should do is to make the units invisible, then count out from the last point of your fully supplied net (usually the last hex of a connected railhead at the start of your turn) along a road, and note where the first 1/4 drop occurs. The number of hexes that it remains the full value (barring mud effects on minor roads) is the supply radius.

Again, very usefull and practial. Thanks Jamiam.

[rhinobones]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
You only get 2/3 of the stated (base) supply number unless you have an HQ, or a Supply Unit, adjacent. The "bonus" is a multiplication of the 2/3 base by 150%, or 3/2.
In the case of having only one (HQ, or Supply Unit), you end up with (2/3)*(3/2) base = 1 base.
In the case of having both, you end up with (2/3)*(3/2)^2 base = 1.5 base.
This is then further modified by the supply efficiency of the formation, which is a value between .01 and 1.0 and is another multiplicative modifier.

Well, we learn something new every day! Thank you.

Would be nice though if the computer/game engine did all these calculations and actually displayed value of supply available instead of a base number. When a hex is displayed with X supply I would like to know that X is what the unit receives without going thru permutations of calculations . . . that is what the computer chip was designed to do. If it's not there already, this should be added to the wish list.

The efficiency with which supply is distributed within the formation, well, that is another matter.

Regards, RhinoBones

[a white rabbit]

ORIGINAL: Erik Nygaard

ORIGINAL: desert

Supplies do also follow down roads and lines of communication (even rocky, muddy mountains). There are plenty of good scenarios with absolutely no rail lines, though rail does provide the highest supply. I think airfields and ports should provide supply automatically, but oh well.

One trick is to put a supply point on the water hex next to a port, this way enemy ships may block supply to the port.

..thanks for the reminder..

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
Would be nice though if the computer/game engine did all these calculations and actually displayed value of supply available instead of a base number. When a hex is displayed with X supply I would like to know that X is what the unit receives without going thru permutations of calculations . . . that is what the computer chip was designed to do. If it's not there already, this should be added to the wish list.

There would be different circumstances for different units in the hex. Some moved, some didn't; some have different formation supply efficiencies than others; some have cooperation with HQs; some have cooperation with SUs; etc.

[Menschenfresser]

And this is the beauty of TOAW--complexity beneath relative simplicity. When starting out (or obsessing somewhere in the middle) it can frustrate if you can't wrap your head around what is going on. In the end, you'll just look at a 30 running along the rail versus a 6 on that back road you are trying to fight down and say to yourself, "Good supply. And not so good supply. Damn I wish we were fighting over there."