Port Repair Points

[hbrsvl]

Hi- What is the relationship between the # of repair points at a port & the # of ships it can repair? How do the mechanics of this work? Ie., I assume size of ship enters into this, as well as the number of ships. I believe ARs help port, but do AS & AD help repair their kind? Do port points help in reducing sys damage? Also, do ships that are disbanded, but not in need of repair hinder repairs of other ships? Is it better to group ships for repair, ie. BBs at PH, DDs at SFO & SS at San Diego? Many thanks, Hugh Browne

[jwxspoon]

I group bigger ships at bigger ports with bigger shipyards.  ie - BB's at san fran, CA's at Los Angeles; then I spread the smaller ships out at san diego, portland, vancouver, seattle, etc.  Don't forget several of the Canadian ports have small shipyards.
 
To the best of my knowledge, up to 4 AR's in a port help speed up repair.  Also, AD/AS etc. help speed up the repair of their specialized ships.
 
jw

[saj42]

Repair points required = durability of ship
See manual section 13.4

To get an extra point of sys damage removed at a port with repair yard, a dice roll has to be passed. When successful repair points = ship durability are expended. So high durability ships (BBs and CVs) need to go to ports with large repair yards. Merchants and DDs etc can benefit from the smaller repair yards.

[dtravel]

I should write this up in a file.  I will post a longer explanation of what little is known later, I don't have time right now.  But testing has shown that repairing 1 point of SYS damage requires (Ship's Durability + 20) Repair Points.

[dtravel]

Okay, here's the more complete version:
 
[font="times new roman"]There are two types of ship repair.  The first I call “Inherent Repair”.  This is the ship repair that can occur at any port (it can also in theory occur at sea but is so rare that it isn’t a factor).  The second I call “Shipyard Repair”.  This is the repair that occurs only at ports with Repair Shipyards and uses Repair Points generated by those facilities.  [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]The two types of repair are independent of each other.  No relation or dependency has been observed in testing.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Inherent ship repair does not consume supplies.  It appears that Shipyard Repair does not either but this has not been definitively confirmed.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Either type of repair can repair two points in one day, one point each during the Night and Day phases.  Theoretically therefore it is possible for a ship to repair four points of damage in one day.  But don’t expect it to happen during your lifetime.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Shipyard Repair uses Repair Points equal to the ship’s Durability +20.  I.E., a DUR 5 DD will use 25 Repair Points, a DUR 120 CV will use 140.  This is confirmed from actual play, the manual is incorrect on this point.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]It is not known what, if any, factors affect the success of Shipyard Repair.  Based on what the manual hints at and observation I don’t think anything besides the DUR of the ship does.  Not ARs, Naval HQs, nothing.  There is one caveat, the number of ships.  While there is no evidence that the number of ships in port affects any individual ship’s chances of Shipyard Repair, if sufficient other ships have successfully made their checks prior to a given ship there may not be enough Repair Points to perform the repairs on the given ship.  Based on general observation of the program, I assume that the checks are done in the order the ships are listed in the scenario’s database.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font][font="times new roman"]
As best as has been determined to date, the factors that affect Inherent Repair in order are:
1)      The ship’s Durability (the higher it is, the slower repairs are)
2)      Random chance.  (I.E. the program’s random number generator.)
3)      The size of the port (bigger is better)
4)      The presence of repair support ships (AR, AD, AS, AGP) and/or Naval HQs.
5)      The manual states that the experience of the ship’s crew affects repair, but this writer distrusts the manual.
 
Please note, observation indicates #2 above has a larger effect than all the lower factors combined.  Random chance appears to play such a large role that it has so far proven impossible to measure the effects of any factor with any certainty.
[/font]

[Kitakami]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

<snip>
[font="times new roman"]There are two types of ship repair.  The first I call “Inherent Repair”.  This is the ship repair that can occur at any port (it can also in theory occur at sea but is so rare that it isn’t a factor).
<snip>

Imagine my surprise when, a DD I had sent from Kwajalein to Tokyo for repairs, actualy DECREASED its system damage rating while at sea, from 90 to 89.

So yes, it can happen, but better to count on repair yards, if you want damage repaired before the end of the war.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

ORIGINAL: dtravel

<snip>
There are two types of ship repair.  The first I call “Inherent Repair”.  This is the ship repair that can occur at any port (it can also in theory occur at sea but is so rare that it isn’t a factor).
<snip>

Imagine my surprise when, a DD I had sent from Kwajalein to Tokyo for repairs, actualy DECREASED its system damage rating while at sea, from 90 to 89.

So yes, it can happen, but better to count on repair yards, if you want damage repaired before the end of the war.

Plus the fact that since it happened once to you, it will now never happen to anyone ever again. [:'(]

[ETF]

Just curious how come no one really knows how Repair&nbsp;absolutely works? Why is it a trail and error process to determine these points?
&nbsp;

[Xargun]

From my experience and what we've been told this is how I believe repairs work...

As stated above there are 2 types of repairs: Type 1 & Type 2

Type 1:

Can happen every turn - I have only seen it happen in port - but someone posted above that it has happened at sea and I tend to believe him.

Basically there is a random chance per phase (so twice per 1 day turn) for the ship to repair 1 sys point. This chance is increased by the port size (10 being max), Naval HQs, as well as Repair ships (AR for all ships, and AD/AS for specific ships [DD/SS]). These repairs cost no supply and are free.

Type 2

These happen only in ports with Repair Yards. This random check is affected by the same modifiers above (port size, naval HQ, repair ships) and if successful it will consume X number of RPs from the port. If the RPs are not available, the repair does not succeed whether the role is made or not.

Notes:

Repair Yards accumulate RPs up to 4x their size rapidly and then slowly increase over that (have not spotted a set limit).

If a smaller ship gets repaired and sucks up RPs you may not have enough to repair the larger capital ships - so be careful what ships you put where.

The base chance for repair is based on durability of the ship - so the capital ships (CA, BB and CV) are harder to repair than PGs.

Each Repair Ship can only increase the chance for repairs on up to 4 ships per turn. So if you have 3 ARs in a port - they will extend their bonus up to 12 ships total. Same with AS/ADs. Up to 4 ARs will stack their bonus together while AD/AS do not stack.

In my experience the best modifier for repairs is Port Size, Naval HQ / ARs (in that order). In my experience Port size has the biggest impact on repair times. Repair yard size only dictates the max number of repair points you can accumulate so if playing the allies forget about repairing anything larger than a DD / CL anywhere but the West Coast (or Pearl) as the repair yard will never accumulate enough points to succeed. If you are playing Japan customize the size of your repair yards to different ship types and expand as needed.

I have seen a ship repair up to 3 points in 1 turn - although it was a merchant - but 3 pts is nice. Usually CAs repair 1 pt per 2 days and BBs / CVs are an average of 1 pt every 2-3 days. This is providing they are in a large enough repair yard to accumulate the RPs needed.

I usually play Japan so I pay close attention to repair yards and can offer more insight/suggestions if anyone cares.

Xargun

[tsimmonds]

Shipyard Repair uses Repair Points equal to the ship’s Durability +20. I.E., a DUR 5 DD will use 25 Repair Points, a DUR 120 CV will use 140. This is confirmed from actual play, the manual is incorrect on this point.

As best as has been determined to date, the factors that affect Inherent Repair in order are:
1) The ship’s Durability (the higher it is, the slower repairs are)

The combination of these two factors suggests that it is a very good idea to keep DDs out of the ports with big repair yards, which are probably being used to repair damage to CAs and larger. The DDs will rob repair points from your large projects.

The fact that there are ADs, together the fact that smaller ships do inherent repairs faster, suggests that one should concentrate repairs of DDs in one or two dedicated ports.

It is not known what, if any, factors affect the success of Shipyard Repair. Based on what the manual hints at and observation I don’t think anything besides the DUR of the ship does. Not ARs, Naval HQs, nothing. There is one caveat, the number of ships. While there is no evidence that the number of ships in port affects any individual ship’s chances of Shipyard Repair, if sufficient other ships have successfully made their checks prior to a given ship there may not be enough Repair Points to perform the repairs on the given ship. Based on general observation of the program, I assume that the checks are done in the order the ships are listed in the scenario’s database.

There is one further factor I believe that I have noticed. According to my delusional fantasy, damage in the red repairs more reliably than damage in the orange, which repairs more reliably than damage in the tan, which repairs more reliably than damage in the green. And those last 1-4 points? Don't hold your breath. Course I have believed all manner of sh1t that has turned out to be bogus, and I ain't just talking about WitP....[:(]

[Dino]

Must say that I have the same delusional fantasy...

Another thing worth knowing would be if damage control works when ship is disbanded in port.

BTW, what happened to dtravel???

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Dino

Must say that I have the same delusional fantasy...

Another thing worth knowing would be if damage control works when ship is disbanded in port.

I believe the allied damage control bonus works every turn no matter where the ship is... but I must say I believe it is only to reduce fire / flooding damage - not actually repairing sys damage.

Xargun

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: Dino

Must say that I have the same delusional fantasy...

Another thing worth knowing would be if damage control works when ship is disbanded in port.

I believe the allied damage control bonus works every turn no matter where the ship is... but I must say I believe it is only to reduce fire / flooding damage - not actually repairing sys damage.

Xargun

I have seen ships repair SYS damage in open sea and docked in ports with no repair yards quite extensively (and i'm not delusional about this)...but, once they are disbanded, you can't tell who is doing the repairs.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant
The combination of these two factors suggests that it is a very good idea to keep DDs out of the ports with big repair yards, which are probably being used to repair damage to CAs and larger. The DDs will rob repair points from your large projects.

THis is a fact. I used to put damaged capital ships in with DD and subs and watched the damage on the small ships plummet with absolutely no change to the capital ships. When the small ships reached zero (not low, but zero) damage, then the capital ships begin slowly repairing. If a CV or BB is in port repairing all other damaged ships should be removed.

Interestingly, it does appear that AK/AP/TKs will not significantly block the repair of capital ships.

[Rainer]

... forget about repairing anything larger than a DD / CL anywhere but the West Coast (or Pearl)

Basically agree with your points but not that one.
Brought 5 damaged CVs to Munda (30 to 51 % System Damage, some Flotation Damage and small fires) for emergency repair. No HQ and no AR there, but PLENTY of supply. Let them there a couple of days, and after fires and flotation damage was gone brought them to Lunga (4 ARs and SoPac HQ there). In another couple of days (well, 10 days) the ships had recovered enough to be send to Hawaii or West Coast (haven't decided yet).
Of course, when the carriers arrived at Lunga EACH ship with more than zero points damage was formed into a TF and either docked or chased away to another port, so the carriers got the full attention of the ARs.

Summary: even major warships will repair at ports near the front if conditions are right (see Xargun's and dtravel's posts), but the process will be fairly slow. But sometimes you simply don't have alternatives (try to send Lady Lex from Port Moresby to Seattle with SysDam 98%).

Cheers
Rainer

[Procrustes]

Hi,

In the manual I believe it says that the "automatic" repair will not repair a ship past 5(?) points damage unless you disband it - if you leave it docked in a task force any auto-repair stops at 5.&nbsp; (I hope I didn't imagine that one....)

Also, can someone please comment on the advantage that the US has in damage repair?&nbsp; I thought they were supposed to repair sys damage faster than the Japanese.

Thanks,

[tsimmonds]

The DC advantage is that when at sea, flooding and fires are more likely to be brought under control on US ships than they are on IJN ships. System damage is not involved.

[Anthropoid]

I made a few observations using the WPO engine, so I thought I'd link to it here as well.

[Feinder]

It sounds like the "concern" is over the fact that the random chance may actually preclude you from&nbsp;upgrading your ship because you keep failing the roll (thus with no repair, no upgrade).

Why not just eliminate the "roll" all together, and tweak the formula so that it approximates the current rate of repair (about 1 sys per day for smaller ships, 1 sys per 3 days for larger, give or take).
&nbsp;
-F-

[Anthropoid]

Based on what Dtravel said in the older thread that Helpless gave me the link to in that thread to which I in my previous post (geeze that was confusing even to me . . .), yes, Feinder, I do believe that randomnicity is a very prominent factor in the way repairs work.
&nbsp;
IMHO, that is fine for repairs at some small out of the way base where the 20 or 30 guys who are gonna be spearheading the work and their commanders are not top notch, maybe do not have top-notch infrastructure (e.g., Port < 6) and do not have top brass helping to coordinate.