Are TBDs undervalued?

[Akos Gergely]

So here is something of interest that sounds logical and I think now it is more understanidble that NikMod and CHS gives it a more fair treatment.

TBDs

Especially the 202nm distance flown to the Sho and Zui in the Coral Sea is interesting...

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: csatahajos

So here is something of interest that sounds logical and I think now it is more understanidble that NikMod and CHS gives it a more fair treatment.

TBDs

Especially the 202nm distance flown to the Sho and Zui in the Coral Sea is interesting...

I kinda get the feeling that the TBD was a lot like the Swordfish. Almost written off as useless due to its low speed and reputation (undeserved) as a hunk of junk. It seems in reality it performed much better than it is given credit for.

[Big B]

I would agree that it performed much better than it is given credit for.

However, it's speed was much less than a Grumman Avenger, it's armament was less than an Avenger, it's range was less than an Avenger, it's armor was nil - compared again to an Avenger which was well armored for it's day, it's overall robustness and utility was much lass than an Avenger as well. So replacing the TBD with the TBF Avenger was a "no-brainer".

Having said that, in WitP terms I believe it's range has certainly been short-changed, as it cannot fly the distances it did in real life. It's cruise speed and top speed are not that much less than a B5N Kate (about 30mph I think)- though it's range certainly was less than a B5N. And it's safety record during the early 1942 carrier raids before Coral Sea was even better than the SBD Dauntless(that was a minor Navy scandal as I have read).

The TBD executed one of the most successful torpedo attacks on record against a carrier underway (Shoho). But at Midway, the TBD squadrons suffered appalling losses, though I think a good case can be made that under the circumstances of their attacks on the KB, Avengers may have suffered almost as bad.

Be that as it may, given the catastrophic losses endured by the VT squadrons at Midway, it only makes sense that the VT squadrons would re-equip with an obviously better combat aircraft if one was available...and one was available.

I suppose in the scheme of things, it may be expected that the TBD got a bad reputation...though possibly not the reputation it deserved.

B

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: csatahajos

So here is something of interest that sounds logical and I think now it is more understanidble that NikMod and CHS gives it a more fair treatment.

TBDs

Especially the 202nm distance flown to the Sho and Zui in the Coral Sea is interesting...

I kinda get the feeling that the TBD was a lot like the Swordfish. Almost written off as useless due to its low speed and reputation (undeserved) as a hunk of junk. It seems in reality it performed much better than it is given credit for.

[Akos Gergely]

Quite true, basically I just wanted to point out for the AE dev. team that if it hasn't been done already, they might reconsider the range of the TBDs (for say 4 hex extended and 3 hexes torp range in current 60mile hex terms). I think this might greatly influence early war USN CV engagements. If for nothing else TBDs might draw some of the CAP to them letting through more SBDs.

On the other hand it turns out from the above article that the Mark 13 Mod 1 that they carried at Midway was partly at fault - and if we take this it is hardly arguable that Avangers in the exact same situ with the same torps would not have done any better.


So please, please give the TBD the range in AE to fly with the SBDs...

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: csatahajos

Quite true, basically I just wanted to point out for the AE dev. team that if it hasn't been done already, they might reconsider the range of the TBDs (for say 4 hex extended and 3 hexes torp range in current 60mile hex terms). I think this might greatly influence early war USN CV engagements. If for nothing else TBDs might draw some of the CAP to them letting through more SBDs.

On the other hand it turns out from the above article that the Mark 13 Mod 1 that they carried at Midway was partly at fault - and if we take this it is hardly arguable that Avangers in the exact same situ with the same torps would not have done any better.


So please, please give the TBD the range in AE to fly with the SBDs...

Almost no plane in WITP can fly distances it could historically - this is a deliberate decision put in the reflect operational necessities (i think) - i.e. - fuel burned up while launching aircraft, fuel burned up due to flying around weather, flak concentrations, etc. The TBD is not singled out.

As for pleading with AE people to make a particular decision - you should probably post on the AE thread - i doubt it will get much notice here.

[Akos Gergely]

OK will take your advice, I just found it interesting in the first place so as to share it with others and see if I'm alone with this.

As for range in WitP, even taking into account what you say I feel that the TBD's range is undervalued. What's more it is quite an important plane, so if it would be one of the old biplane dutch fighters I won't complain.