Lexington Class 6/42 upgrade

[SuluSea]

Looking at the June '42 upgrade for the Lexington Class it doesn't look that enticing, I'm thinking about later in the summer close to when the October upgrade is available and when both CVs get back from down under. I Feel I recieved good advice on the Boise upgrade so am asking about this one.

Current




June upgrade




October upgrade

[Misconduct]

I skipped the June upgrade, and went with October, basically two things that standed out for me was the Radar, Current has 149,000 range, and june upgrade is 62,000. I don't know exactly how good the upgraded device is however I stuck with the current due to the range.
Secondly the June upgrade has weaker AAA, one of my main concerns for skipping it.

Basically I skipped June and waited out till october for the upgrade. Only bad news is you have to upgrade to June anyway, so skipping it stacks more time to refit a carrier, however the overall time isn't that much.

[anarchyintheuk]

The drop in aa value is mostly due to the removal of the .50 cals and some 1.1s, which are mostly revenge weapons. I would take into account difference in effectiveness between the 5/25 Mk10 and 5/38 Mk12 before making my decision as well.

Having said that, I don't go out of my way to make sure I can get the 6/42 upgrade asap.

[crsutton]

Yes, it is not just the AA value but the type of weapons. It is a toos up but if my ship is not busy, I always take the upgrade.

[crsutton]

toos up? [&:]

[Swayin]

I wait - scarcity of flattops at that point makes it an easy decision for me.

[topeverest]

Agree that the mid 42 CV upgrades are a bit of a leap of faith, especially the Yorktown class.

[Dili]

It is clearly a v.good upgrade 16x 5"/38 vs 12x 5"/25.

[topeverest]

Dili, exacly! The american summer 42 upgrades are valuable and worth doing at first opportunity, but you have to understand the weapons effectiveness and range differences for the upgrades to really jump out at you.

[Sredni]

I was running very short on fighters for the carriers by 2/42 when the first round of carrier upgrades came along so I used it as an opportunity to put two carriers in dock to upgrade and put their aircraft to training on shore while I let my plane reserves rebuild.

Not sure if I would have been willing just then if my fighter groups hadn't been so depleted. The first batch of upgrades seem underwhelming.

[LoBaron]

I go with the "do upgrade" party. [;)]

Was already discussed a bit in The Elf´s analysis of Rob Brennans CV battle victory against me.

AAA value says nothing about the range of the guns and their actual effectiveness (only in a highly abstracted way).
As anarchyintheuk said, the basic AA of the Lexington class consists of 80% revenge weapons. The 5in guns are the ones that hurt on approach.
I´d trade 1.1ers for a couple of improved 5 inchers any day. The defense at close range should be handled by the Oerlikons anyway.

No wonder that so many players complain about weak allied AA before bomb release if this upgrade is ignored.

[Jaroen]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

<snipped rest of message>

No wonder that so many players complain about weak allied AA before bomb release if this upgrade is ignored.

Hey, woah, not so fast mister Baron . . . [;)]
Just as many players were definately taking that into account when comparing Allied AAA with the Japanese AAA!

As to the original subject - the later upgrades require the earlier upgrades to be done with. So it doesn't pay to wait and think the later upgrades will be done quicker. Other than that I think necessity dictates whether the upgrade time is suitable. Funny thing is, when you find it's convenient to do an upgrade it usually isn't very urgent. You're probably not much threatened by air power (yet?). Or you find it's not convenient at all because you need all your strength to stay competative. But you'd really like the good AAA to defend yourself against air attacks. So it seems preferable to take that opportunity to do an upgrade when it appears convenient. You might not have the opportunity later!?

[SuluSea]

Consider me convinced to upgrade at first opportunity, when the thread first started I was more in the hold off camp, I already understood that the two upgrades would take 51 days minimum. I lke the hurt on approach moreso than the revenge weapons. Thanks for the contributions all. I'll upgrade when she gets back from ferrying planes to SOPAC if I have the chance.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: Jaroen

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

<snipped rest of message>

No wonder that so many players complain about weak allied AA before bomb release if this upgrade is ignored.

Hey, woah, not so fast mister Baron . . . [;)]
Just as many players were definately taking that into account when comparing Allied AAA with the Japanese AAA!

As to the original subject - the later upgrades require the earlier upgrades to be done with. So it doesn't pay to wait and think the later upgrades will be done quicker. Other than that I think necessity dictates whether the upgrade time is suitable. Funny thing is, when you find it's convenient to do an upgrade it usually isn't very urgent. You're probably not much threatened by air power (yet?). Or you find it's not convenient at all because you need all your strength to stay competative. But you'd really like the good AAA to defend yourself against air attacks. So it seems preferable to take that opportunity to do an upgrade when it appears convenient. You might not have the opportunity later!?

Hey Jaroen. I did not mean to say that those actually testing did not try take this into account as much as possible.
Sorry if you misunderstood it as a comment in that direction and the tests you did are really apprechiated.
Also be sure that I am far beyond being threatened from air power already... [;)]

It is not neccesary to rerun that discussion anyway and it wasn´t my intention to do so.

My comment was directed at those who compare apples with oranges and like to draw their conclusions from there.

I agree that upgrades depend highly on availability of free assets. If you have an important misison to run its sometimes better to wait.
Still, the original US AAA is, and should be, anemic. The reason for this is because it was the Japanese that first developed an efficient use of CV forces against shipping
from the theoretical studies and tests that were available. The Allies ignored this until after PH, and so also ignored the potential of ship based AAA, but then caught up
and overtook the IJN in relative short time (this is what shows in the different upgrades for nearly every Allied naval vessel).

[Dili]

Allies didn't ignored it. Before Peal Harbour there was 2 years of War in Europe showing for everyone what aircrafts could accomplish. British had already AA cruisers. But development production and logistics need time to be put in place.

[LoBaron]

Well, Dili, but thats why the upgrades come so soon for the USN. I mentioned that the Allies caught up fast.

What you say sounds a bit like "He did not ignore the wall. He just did not react fast enough to avoid crashing into it." [;)]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Well, Dili, but thats why the upgrades come so soon for the USN. I mentioned that the Allies caught up fast.

What you say sounds a bit like "He did not ignore the wall. He just did not react fast enough to avoid crashing into it." [;)]

But it seemed like you were saying "He ignored the wall until he crashed into it!" Dili is saying "He saw the wall coming and slowed down enough to make a softer crash!" [:D]

[Dili]

hehehe amusing witpqs. Lo baron the british when they got the 5"/38 in Delhi cruiser refitted in US, wanted it in more ships. Couldn't get it. There was a limitation even to what USA monster industry could do.

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

I skipped the June upgrade, and went with October, basically two things that standed out for me was the Radar, Current has 149,000 range, and june upgrade is 62,000. I don't know exactly how good the upgraded device is however I stuck with the current due to the range.

At least in the case of Hornet, the game has the radar upgrade backwards. Hornet came to the Pacific with SC radar. The CXAM radar was added after Midway, using the set taken off California. (That wasn't a replacement; Hornet kept the SC radar when the CXAM radar was installed. They just moved the SC antenna.)

It looks like the range of the CXAM radar may be overstated a bit as well. The USN document FTP 217 "Operational Characteristics of Radar Classified by Tactical Application" puts the range of the CXAM radar (for detecting a large aircraft with the antenna mounted at 130 ft) at 50 miles (about 100,000 yards). The SC range looks about right. FTP 217 says the SC range on a medium bomber is 30 miles with the antenna at 100 ft.

[Central Blue]

refits are a great time to max out your squadrons with pilots and planes and train, train, train. Given the woeful availability of useful aircraft, they are probably better off training.

When the DB's are looking good on attack, they train on search, and then ASW. But that won't be happening at the June update. [:)]