Optimum Jap garrison level for Burma

[Miller]

We all know it is pretty easy to kick the Allies out of Burma, but on the other hand if he commits some of his Indian units he can be back in strength by mid/late 42.......

My question is, as the Japs how much do you commit to try and halt any Allied steamroller going back South through Burma? 3 Div's worth of troops? More/Less???

Opinions please.......

[FatR]

I don't think it is possible to answer such a question asked in vacuum. Defensive plans for Burma should depend on overall situation and strategy by both sides. IMO, 4 divisions worth of troops is a bare minimum necessary to even slow down an Allied assault. Hope you have 4-6 more in strategic reserve, if the Allied player really invests in the theatre.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: FatR

I don't think it is possible to answer such a question asked in vacuum. Defensive plans for Burma should depend on overall situation and strategy by both sides. IMO, 4 divisions worth of troops is a bare minimum necessary to even slow down an Allied assault. Hope you have 4-6 more in strategic reserve, if the Allied player really invests in the theatre.

+1

Allies can bring a LOT of force to bear here if they choose. Depends so much on when and what your goals are.

[Andy Mac]

Depends on location of 18th Brit, 6th Aus and 7th Aus Divs

Its unlikely an Allied player can build a good supply net by building up the frontier bases in 42 the real threat is along the Arakan where naval supply can keep them fed so a strong force of light naval units and a few decent naval air sqns help a lot.

Overall 2 Divs on Arakan front is probably enough given the terrain maybe even a Bde Group plus attached AA at Akyab with a Div on ready reserve

On the Assam front 2 Divs spread out over North Burma a regt at least watching the Chinese the balance keeping an eye on the North

Probably one more Div at Rangoon with Tank Regts and one of the Jap Airborne Regts in support to act as firemen if the Allies send the USMC Paras to the theatre.

[Andy Mac]

ps if you spot a lot of seabees being shipped to India the real threat is Sept 43 onwards when the frontier bases are built and a supply net established

[Smeulders]

Looking at AARs it seems like 4 is the bare minimum. In my own AAR I'm estimating (SigInt and combat reports) that there are at least 9 Japanese Infantry divisions on the front in Northern Burma, supported by tank regiments and RTA divisions.

Edit: This is a game started pre-patch 2, this means I don't have to worry about building up bases for supply to flow. I can comfortably feed multiple thousands AV overland, consequently the Japanese need a lot more troops to defend than would be the case at the end of 42' in a post-patch 2 game.

[Puhis]

One of my PBEM game I had 6 divisions and 2 brigades, and it was not enough...

[Miller]

[:(]

[crsutton]

And depends on you strategic position elsewhere. If you have overrun China then your position in Burma is not as important and you can give ground. Rangoon becomes less important for you to hold or for the Allies to possess. The only real purpose in Burma is to slow down the Allies counter offensive. There is only one strategic point in Burma of any value and that is Magawe. Once the oil facility there is bombed out, (Usually fairly soon) then there is nothing in Burma that is worth much to either side. It matters little how much you have in Burma if you are about to be flanked.

[John 3rd]

Burma is out-of-control in my view. The Japanese can steamroller it too easily and then the reverse is true with the Allies.

My attempt to slow this down is a HR that freezes the vast majority of combat during the Monsoon months. Have this working in my RA Campaign right now and it has been pretty fair. I couldn't quite get to Myitkyna and Lew has to watch the approaching weather with his counterattack...

I've got 8 ID in theatre with 5 Tk Reg and 2 Brigades. They are holding so far...

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Burma is out-of-control in my view. The Japanese can steamroller it too easily and then the reverse is true with the Allies.

My attempt to slow this down is a HR that freezes the vast majority of combat during the Monsoon months. Have this working in my RA Campaign right now and it has been pretty fair. I couldn't quite get to Myitkyna and Lew has to watch the approaching weather with his counterattack...

I've got 8 ID in theatre with 5 Tk Reg and 2 Brigades. They are holding so far...

Well, perhaps it is easier for the Allies to get back into Burma than historically but it is also very easy for a competent Japanese player to gobble up Northern OZ, Noumea and Suva, the Aleutians and a lot of Central Pacific goodies. As the Allied player, I have no reservations about attacking in Burma as soon as possible and hold very little personal guilt if my honorable Japanese oppoents have to send a few extra division into Burma to keep me honest....But, I in no way think Burma is out of control. I know experiences can vary.

[racndoc]

It kind of depends on how the Allies play the early game. If they withdraw Burma Corps intact into eastern Burma/India and rebuild it there is about 1000 AV there. If they extricate most of III Indian Corps from Malaya.....not very difficult to accomplish BTW.....there is another 1800 AV there. And if they commit I Australian Corps to India there is another 1300 AV. So thats over 4000 AV without any Indian/USA reinforcements. I usually buy the 2 Indian armored brigades and its pretty easy to mass over 5000 AV by late 1942.

I dont have a problem with this as Japan can start buying 90 experience brigades from Manchukuo by 1/42. IMHO it keeps Japan honest and forces them to use their PPs to buy reinforcements for Burma rather than using them against Australia/NZ/New Caledonia or commit ahistorical numbers of troops in defense of the central Pacific.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Miller

We all know it is pretty easy to kick the Allies out of Burma, but on the other hand if he commits some of his Indian units he can be back in strength by mid/late 42.......

My question is, as the Japs how much do you commit to try and halt any Allied steamroller going back South through Burma? 3 Div's worth of troops? More/Less???

Opinions please.......

Burma's a nightmare for Japan. Commit too little, they'll simply swamp you. Commit too much, you're weak somewhere else. It all depends what they bring to the table and how they've played Burma to date.

If you hold a forward line you'll need more than four IMO. If the Allies withdrew in Burma from day one they'll be loaded for bear, add the overwhelming Allied bomber force into the mix...well. Considering there are basically three routes of advance available to the Allies to drive south, you will need alot of troops to defend them all adequately. If you'd rather bank on only one or two of those routes being used, guess wrong and you're in a world of hurt. All are easily outflanked, it just takes being patient and moving through rough terrain, and you simply can't spread out enough to stop that from happening. Right now, I'm looking at 35 Allied units at Shwebo threatening to assault Mandalay directly, or flank to the southeast to cut the railway to Lashio in Nov/42. That's not including whatever is on the other two flanks, humping it through the bush from India or possibly preparing for an amphibious assault. And you have to worry about the Chinese threatening from Paoshan.

Do the math.

[ilovestrategy]

I need to work on my reading comprehension. I read optimum as "opium". Boy did my eyes pop open! [:D]

[Smeulders]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Miller

We all know it is pretty easy to kick the Allies out of Burma, but on the other hand if he commits some of his Indian units he can be back in strength by mid/late 42.......

My question is, as the Japs how much do you commit to try and halt any Allied steamroller going back South through Burma? 3 Div's worth of troops? More/Less???

Opinions please.......

Burma's a nightmare for Japan. Commit too little, they'll simply swamp you. Commit too much, you're weak somewhere else. It all depends what they bring to the table and how they've played Burma to date.

If you hold a forward line you'll need more than four IMO. If the Allies withdrew in Burma from day one they'll be loaded for bear, add the overwhelming Allied bomber force into the mix...well. Considering there are basically three routes of advance available to the Allies to drive south, you will need alot of troops to defend them all adequately. If you'd rather bank on only one or two of those routes being used, guess wrong and you're in a world of hurt. All are easily outflanked, it just takes being patient and moving through rough terrain, and you simply can't spread out enough to stop that from happening. Right now, I'm looking at 35 Allied units at Shwebo threatening to assault Mandalay directly, or flank to the southeast to cut the railway to Lashio in Nov/42. That's not including whatever is on the other two flanks, humping it through the bush from India or possibly preparing for an amphibious assault. And you have to worry about the Chinese threatening from Paoshan.

Do the math.

Now now, this a thread about your force levels in Burma. Tell us more about the number of divisions, and maybe their exact locations. Special interest goes out to everything South of Tongou, those troops are harder to get intel on.

[FatR]

The ahistorical aspect of Burma defense is easy logistics. Japanese cannot rely on jungle to shield them from an all-out assault. But logistics are easy everywhere in the game... I think that a Japanese player should contemplate striking at Bengal and conquering Calcutta area early to delay Allied advance in this direction. Bengal does not have any good defensible chokepoints, but neither does Burma, and unlike Burma, it produces plenty of supply. Plus, more ground to give and a possibility of smashing Allied units in India and surrounding Burma Corps. Unfortunately, it will allow Allies to use restricted Indian troops to pound on you, so unless you destroy much of them early, fighting withdrawal in autumn of 1942 (while trying to torch as much of Indian supply production as you can) probably is a necessity.

[Andy Mac]

Hmmm not my experience logistics is tough in Burma you need a strong logistical net to supply large armies there

[Smeulders]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Hmmm not my experience logistics is tough in Burma you need a strong logistical net to supply large armies there

Easy to explain, some games started before the second patch when supply restrictions were introduced. No need to set up a supply net with those games. Games started after that patch will see a lot of trouble getting supplies through the jungle into Burma.

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Hmmm not my experience logistics is tough in Burma you need a strong logistical net to supply large armies there

Absolutely , Being in the position that Mandalay never fell, keeping the large army fed and watered was an utter nightmare for the Allies in most of 42, We even used all the transports and even bombers to fly in supply just to keep it in the orange supply wise. Now its early 43 and the border bases and near border dot bases have been built, keeping supply stable is getting easier but by no means easy.

Check my AAR for details.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Hmmm not my experience logistics is tough in Burma you need a strong logistical net to supply large armies there

I agree. I am Japan and we are using the Beta M6 which we patched the game to after we started as it fixed some issues we thought were important, like AA (all is working fine btw).

Using this patch you can actually see the supply throughtput by hex using the '5' key. Select a hex, press 5 and numbers will appear that indicate the path of supplies and how much goes out from that location to different hexes around that hex. Needless to say this makes it clear that going through any kind of 'rough terrian', i.e. jungle, rough, etc without a road/path is not something you can do with a large amount of forces and expect them to be effective long enough to do anything.

Now that I know that people have different versions of the game, I can now rest easier with the forces I have in theater versus having to scramble to reinforce to prevent an onslought of Allies [:)]