Reference clarification please... APA vs AP or xAP vs LCI LCT

[Macclan5]

Sirs

Mr Moose esquire especially if you are lurking.

Regarding: tm.asp?m=2961532&mpage=1&key=apa&#2961532

(homework done)

I sit ides of March 1943.

I note:

1) a fair number of xAP and AP able to convert to APA

2) Similarly an ever increasing flow of LCI and LCT (Higgens boats) arriving from Portland and Panama Canal. Additionally a couple of LCL (British equivalents) Capetown and Abdaban.

Questions:

Where in the manual can I find references to spell out "mathematical or formula advantages to APA" vs AP and xAP? Looked but cannot find. Page or reference really appreciated.

How well does the APA disgorge its troops onto the shore say compared to AP or LCI? i.e. above.

Additionally is the conversion worth the time and opportunity costs of sailing back to San Francisco?? For example or does a large suite of APA also come on line in 44 onwards. I did check the ship availability queue but I cannot say I noted a large number of APA where as the LCI LCT seem to be built in mass production through the end of 43 through 44.

My circumstances.

The bulk of the AP and xAP (as I recall) that can convert have been supporting US-AUS operations in New Guinea. I have lost a few sadly and may live to regret it I think.

Whereas my LCI and LCT have been extensively deployed by US Ops only in the Gilberts - island by island.

I have met most my objectives i.e. nearing my goals for Mid 43 and was planning a pause to reorganize my troops / rest / recover and then preparations for US - AUS operations onwards towards Mindanao - US Cent Pac Ops for the Mariana's.

Do I floatila the two dozen odd AP and xAP back to the west coast for conversion? Or do I simply deploy the ever increasing supply of the higgens boats forward to US AUS operations.

My thanks

[Macclan5]

edit note:

I also read the "Conversion thread below".

Interestingly no notes on APA ; further it appears to be Babes Scenario which may differ from stock game.

Regards

[Yaab]

I have some loose references below.


Don Bowen's quote:

What I can answer:

Beaching Craft and Attack Amphibious Ships are all Amphib ships for the purpose of non-invasion unloads. In UNDOCKED TFs, they unload at a factor based on the amphib rate. This factor is 60% of the amphib rate for troops and 40% for cargo. The amphib rate is 3000. However, you will almost never see these unload rates due to port limitations.

By Regular Amphibious Ships I assume you mean AP and AK types. These unload at the 60% Troop/40% Cargo factors based on the Transport Ship rate of 1500.

Merchant ships use the same 60% Troop, 40% cargo factors but base it on the Merchant rate(s). These rates are:
Japanese Merchant Ships: 400
except during initial bonus period 1200
Allied Merchant Ships: 250
(I do not recall why Japanese Merchant ship rate is higher than allied. Some gaming issue I expect)
-----------

AMC
tm.asp?m=3004634&mpage=1&key=class%2Cunload&#3004734

Don Bowen:
AMCs are naval transport types - same grouping as AP.

[HansBolter]

Don't have the manual in front of me but recently quoted the relevant section in another thread.

Look at 6.2 or 6.3 in the manual for clear mathematical break down of the unloading rates for the various types both over beaches and when docked at friendly ports.

and BTW no xAPs ever convert to APAs....only APs do that.

xAP = civilian merchant ship used for military purposes

AP = military transport

APA = military Attack transport

[Macclan5]

My thanks gentlemen !

Hans you are probably more correct than I ~ I was going from memory.

The AP are therefore precious gems not to be squandered. Another of the 1000 things to learn.

In essence (subject to 6.2 or so) the rate of an APA is 3000 compared to 1500 or essentially double allowing for variables such as die role, conditions, port size.

Q : Would that would also translate to "beach" landings ?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

My thanks gentlemen !

Hans you are probably more correct than I ~ I was going from memory.

The AP are therefore precious gems not to be squandered. Another of the 1000 things to learn.

In essence (subject to 6.2 or so) the rate of an APA is 3000 compared to 1500 or essentially double allowing for variables such as die role, conditions, port size.

Q : Would that would also translate to "beach" landings ?

Others gave the math. I never do math. [:)]

APs are indeed precious, but in 1942 they're the best you have for island landings. Sometimes you have to risk them, as well as the AKs. The upgrade to APA/AKA is pretty good. It adds inherent landing craft capability and thus unload speed. I believe at least one of them (AKA?) in the code adds its landing craft capacity to the mix for the TF once it's empty and some other, slower ships aren't. That math has never been revealed AFAIK.

In stock, APs that can convert to APA in 1943 only need a 5 yard, so you don't have to go all the way back to CONUS. PH works, Sydney, Melbourne. Ceylon. Calcutta. Not Perth.

The LCI and its various variants, including the Gun model (G), is a sea-going ship that is managed as such. The LCT and the other barge-types (LCM, LCVP, more?) are pool-managed. You draw them out into a port same as you do for PT boats. When you disband back to the pool they have a lag before being available elsewhere.

The LCI beaches to unload its troops. Usually this was off bow-mounted, davit-lowered ramps. But there were a number of designs. Beach like the LSTs. Vulnerable to underwater rocks. The LSTs can break their backs on the beach too; never seen an LCI do that.

The APA/AKA are big ships that stand offshore and use landing craft to move the cargoes in.

[Macclan5]

Thanks Bull...

The level 5 port is another additional tidbit to sock away.

In all probability I have to go back to CONUS... Sydney is rather full with Sub upgrades and some additional damaged xAK xAP.

As I indicate a significant troop re-organization will be due on or by June 1943 so I will attempt to use and preserve what I have deployed.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Thanks Bull...

The level 5 port is another additional tidbit to sock away.

In all probability I have to go back to CONUS... Sydney is rather full with Sub upgrades and some additional damaged xAK xAP.

As I indicate a significant troop re-organization will be due on or by June 1943 so I will attempt to use and preserve what I have deployed.

N.B not a level 5 port. A 5 yard. 5000 tons. I'll double double check, but I'm pretty sure that's it. Has to be a yard. A port won't do, even a huge one with no yard.

Also, conversions work sorta oddly in the game. If you need a yard to initiate you just need it. But once the conversion starts you can move the ship pierside, go to Low priority, and I don't think it pulls from the normal flow of repair points. I've had ships in conversion at Pearl and then quadrupled the number of ships in for major repair, and the conversion time never changes.

Edit: I don't think moving the converting ship to Low does anything; I do it for flavor.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Thanks Bull...

The level 5 port is another additional tidbit to sock away.

In all probability I have to go back to CONUS... Sydney is rather full with Sub upgrades and some additional damaged xAK xAP.

As I indicate a significant troop re-organization will be due on or by June 1943 so I will attempt to use and preserve what I have deployed.

You realize its a level 5 shipyard not the port level. Also if you can afford to you can delay the sub upgrades/damage xAK xAP repair. This can be done through the port screen where you can prioritize your repairs/upgrades. To get there open the base screen, click ships anchored at port button, click manage ships under repair button. In case you didn't know. This may be the better option, as opposed to returning to CONUS. Your call.

EDIT:[:D] Moose got there first.

[Bullwinkle58]

Also, if you have not, read this. Alfred's Famous Repair Guide. Ship repair is a whole sub-game in itself. Note that conversion is not repair.

tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=ship%2Crepair

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

EDIT:[:D] Moose got there first.

By a nose.

[rustysi]

Oh, forgot about that.[&:] How I don't know. Treasure trove of repair info.