Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

[Chaplain]

In my PBEM #15 game as the Japanese, I lingered the PH strike force in the vicinity of Wake-Johnston for about a week, and got lucky by sinking the Lexington as it headed out to reinforce Midway. Bad gamble on my opponent's part. Since then, I've been thinking about the situation from the Allied side. Given the carnage at Pearl, what would be a good strategy for counter-acting the PH strike force if it lingers?

(Of course, running away and hiding is the default strategy for the Allies, but can someone suggest another one? A viable one? Is there any reason for the Jap to fear if the PH strike force lingers?)

[kaleun]

Send subs to the area around midway. I did that in my PBEM game, to "recon" before sending supplies and reinforcing midway

[DrewMatrix]

As the Allies (Scen 15, AI=Hard) my bassic strategy is

a) Find the main IJN force (recon is important)
b) Attack someplace else.

If the KB goes to the Dutch East Indies, take Wake or Maletop or something. If the KB hangs out around Wake, use transports to grab something obnoxious in the southern part of the map.

Try not to send valuable resources into the dark if you have no clue as to where the enemy main strength lies, however.

[rogueusmc]

Don't react to them in '41-'42...make them react to you. You'll get your @$$ handed to you if you try to react to them.

[mavraam]

ORIGINAL: Beezle

As the Allies (Scen 15, AI=Hard) my bassic strategy is

a) Find the main IJN force (recon is important)
b) Attack someplace else.

If the KB goes to the Dutch East Indies, take Wake or Maletop or something. If the KB hangs out around Wake, use transports to grab something obnoxious in the southern part of the map.

Try not to send valuable resources into the dark if you have no clue as to where the enemy main strength lies, however.

Agreed. My whole early Allied strategy is based on 'hit em where they aint'. Its pointless to directly confront the Jap strength early. Plus, there's no need to stick around and protect Pearl or Midway. If they try to take Pearl, its suicide and if they want Midway, they can have it, for now. IMHO.

My whole late Allied strategy however is based on 'hit em where they are'!

[PeteG662]

One of my carrier TFs heads to Wake straight away and smacks the invasion fleet there whether I lose Wake or not. Full Speed and linger maybe 2-3 turns there then run.

The second carrier TF I send towards Kwajalein where there is a bunch of supply traffic that will be building by the time I get there in 3 or 4 turns at full speed. You can catch some of those convoys and eat them up with target practice. An alternative is to send the second carrier TF towards Makin since the IJN will attempt to capture that area quickly.

[DrewMatrix]

One of my carrier TFs ...

The second carrier TF

I am doing exactly the opposite, ie I am keeping all my CVs in the same hex (in two TFs). See "How much do you concentrate your forces" thread in The War Room

[PeteG662]

The spread for me helps to hit simultaneously in two separate areas and take out more ships and blunt more attacks...Wake invasion force will be eaten up and so will another TF or two but if I concentrate them in one place only 1 TF gets hit, either at Wake or near Kwajalein/Makin/Tarawa

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: Tallyman662

One of my carrier TFs heads to Wake straight away and smacks the invasion fleet there whether I lose Wake or not. Full Speed and linger maybe 2-3 turns there then run.

The second carrier TF I send towards Kwajalein where there is a bunch of supply traffic that will be building by the time I get there in 3 or 4 turns at full speed. You can catch some of those convoys and eat them up with target practice. An alternative is to send the second carrier TF towards Makin since the IJN will attempt to capture that area quickly.

Who really cares if you lose Lexington or one of the others? They get VP's, but you get tham all back later as Essex class ships anyway! In one of my allied runs in #15, they nailed the Lexington near Wake for sure, but at the cost of 70 Sys damage on Akagi, and 20-30 Sys Damage on two other carriers! Lucky hits, I guess. I put one major carrier out of action for over six months and two others for two months or more and I will get Lexington back later as an Essex boat!

[PeteG662]

Its not like I am battling KB, I am just dealing with the other task forces that are attacking in other places.....the original post was about a lingering KB and what do you do. I don't feel a need to attack them right away but taking out a few cruisers, destroyers, APs, AOs, and AKs for no loss is a lot better trade off in my mind versus sending one carrier at six.

[Chaplain]

But see, my opponent attempted exactly what Tallyman suggested, and that's how he lost the Lexington. Losing carriers certainly isn't the end of the world for the Allies (they built, like, 70 of them) , but each loss SLOWS the counter-attack. It just seems to me that there really isn't any good reason for the US CV's to sortie at all in 12/41-1/42 if the location of KB is unknown. It's too much of a crapshoot.

Ergo, the Jap always wants to keep the location of KB unknown. The Ryujo and the other CVL and LBA can support any SRA/NEI landings. I would tell you where KB is hanging out for me as we turn the corner into January, but I don't know if my opponent reads these forums or not ... [:D]

[mogami]

Hi, In PBEM the Allied player might as well just assume the Japanese are going to stick around. Send the CV and all at sea TF south. (As well as assuming the CV will hit PH again go whole hog and assume the Japanese are going to move against Rabaul and the South Pacific without aircover. You will have your fun commence around 1 Jan 1942. Get every healthy ship headed there ASAP. Send you PT and subs to where the enemy PH strike force might be sitting for next day.

If Wake holds out one turn 1 you can go there first to sink a few Japanese ships. The IJN CV are at least 2 weeks from Wake and besides that they need to refuel soon. The USN CV will consume all the fuel on their way south but since nothing else will be moving that way for a while there is time to restock the bases that are drained when the first monster supply TF begin arriving from SF at end of Dec.

[PeteG662]

I hear you.....the talk was of lingering near Midway though.....at Wake it takes a little more time to catch the allied carriers from the KB strike on PH. I have a day or two lead and putting them on full speed versus mission speed I can do better since the IJN has a slightly slower full speed on a few of their carriers IIRC. Balls to the wall with one near Wake and one southward.....hit quick and duck out of sight before KB shows up.....thats what I am talking about.

[Chaplain]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, In PBEM the Allied player might as well just assume the Japanese are going to stick around. Send the CV and all at sea TF south.

Agreed - that was my original point. And no one seems to have a convincing argument to the contrary.

[UncleBuck]

If ther was a Pearl Harbor, I pull my Carriers back to PH and escort my wounded to teh big Repair yards on CONUS. this lets me cover them from enemy attacks if KB decides to look for them. It gets teh m out of harms way and allows me to upgrade on the west coast insead of taking supply from PH. By early Jan 42 I can now team them up with the two new carriers and have a real carrier force with plety of escort. US gets Sara and Yorktown Early-Mid Jan. Lots of DD's show up in SF as well. THis will let you move south to OZ or SOPAC in force and with the first MONSTER Supply missions.

I can think of nothing other than a death ride for the US if KB hangs out and you try to counter with anything.


UB

[esteban]

About the only thing you can do if KB hangs around Pearl Harbor is perhaps fly your fighters off of the U.S. carriers, back to Pearl, for turn 2 air cover of PH. Maybe you will shoot down enough Japanese planes to start wearing out KBs air crews.

However, if I am Japanese, with anything other than the strictly historical strikes, I bomb the heck out of PHs airfield by turning the Vals loose on it. The Val's 250 KG bombs will not penetrate either the deck or belt armor of anything on battleship row, and 70-80% of your bombers will go after the U.S. battleships, to the exclusion of the other shipping in the port. So divebombing the port on turn one is largely wasted.

[Chaplain]

ORIGINAL: esteban
The Val's 250 KG bombs will not penetrate either the deck or belt armor of anything on battleship row, and 70-80% of your bombers will go after the U.S. battleships, to the exclusion of the other shipping in the port. So divebombing the port on turn one is largely wasted.

Interesting. Now that's useful intel.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

ORIGINAL: Tallyman662

One of my carrier TFs heads to Wake straight away and smacks the invasion fleet there whether I lose Wake or not. Full Speed and linger maybe 2-3 turns there then run.

The second carrier TF I send towards Kwajalein where there is a bunch of supply traffic that will be building by the time I get there in 3 or 4 turns at full speed. You can catch some of those convoys and eat them up with target practice. An alternative is to send the second carrier TF towards Makin since the IJN will attempt to capture that area quickly.

Who really cares if you lose Lexington or one of the others? They get VP's, but you get tham all back later as Essex class ships anyway! In one of my allied runs in #15, they nailed the Lexington near Wake for sure, but at the cost of 70 Sys damage on Akagi, and 20-30 Sys Damage on two other carriers! Lucky hits, I guess. I put one major carrier out of action for over six months and two others for two months or more and I will get Lexington back later as an Essex boat!

[:@]

[esteban]

ORIGINAL: Chaplain

ORIGINAL: esteban
The Val's 250 KG bombs will not penetrate either the deck or belt armor of anything on battleship row, and 70-80% of your bombers will go after the U.S. battleships, to the exclusion of the other shipping in the port. So divebombing the port on turn one is largely wasted.

Interesting. Now that's useful intel.

Glad to help out.

If you want to be "gamey", you can land some of your Val squadrons before KB leaves for PH, and replace them with the 2-3 carrier capable Kate squadrons on mainland Japan. You have the political points to do so. You will have high op losses in these Kate squadrons, but if you want to pelt shipping in Pearl Harbor, this is your only way to get some real added "oomph" into your PH strike. Doing this depends on what kind of restrictions you and your opponent have on this kind of thing. Personally, I like to have a house rule against using anything but "carrier trained" planes off of carriers. Otherwise you get stuff that is a little too anamolous, like the "corsairs off of carriers" phenomenom in early 43.

Oh, the Ryujo can also make it to PH, from her starting spot in Palau, but there are a couple allied subs you should watch for on the way. But that is 18 more Kates that can actually crack the armor on those BBs.

The Zuiho and Hosho are too far from PH to get there for the turn one festivities. I have tried that already

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: esteban

About the only thing you can do if KB hangs around Pearl Harbor is perhaps fly your fighters off of the U.S. carriers, back to Pearl, for turn 2 air cover of PH. Maybe you will shoot down enough Japanese planes to start wearing out KBs air crews.

However, if I am Japanese, with anything other than the strictly historical strikes, I bomb the heck out of PHs airfield by turning the Vals loose on it. The Val's 250 KG bombs will not penetrate either the deck or belt armor of anything on battleship row, and 70-80% of your bombers will go after the U.S. battleships, to the exclusion of the other shipping in the port. So divebombing the port on turn one is largely wasted.

You must be to far away from PH.. Most of my port attacks (range 3) were with 800 kg bombs which will blow through any armor.. In fact both of the ships I sunk at PH (a DD and the Arizona) died from 800 kgers..

Xargun