Thank you Matrix, for no DRM

[E]

ORIGINAL: Joe Black

Although I have my money back (thank you Paypal)

I wish paypal had been able to get my money back on a deal, after they ruled in my favor (and yet they tell me how much safer it is to use them instead of my credit card). I subsequently closed a bank account I wasn't using any more (it was only opened to receive money from paypal for a batch of spring cleaning items I sold) and promptly lost my ability to use paypal (no longer "verified?"), even via my tried and true credit card. This all happened a year or two ago. Just last night I got a warning that the credit card paypal had on file was about to expire and I really needed to update it... I know it was automated but ROFL! ...That'd be the credit card they wouldn't let me use before it expired.

I've yet to understand why paypal needs to have access to my bank account to allow use of a verified credit card not associated in anyway with my bank account. These DRM's are getting ridiculous I say! *grin*

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Recently, I went to buy close to $600 worth of boardgames from L2. However, when I got to the checkout, I found out that my payment options were personal check/money order or Paypal. I was so disgusted that I closed the browser, and blew off the order. I hate Paypal with a passion. At least half of the phishing attempts that come my way via email are associated with this service that's supposedly protecting my billing information. Yeah, right. [:@]

[joeblack1862]

Sorry to here that E / Prince.

Good to raise a note of caution, Paypal are far from perfect, and I am under no illusions that my experience could well have been different with a different seller.

But at this moment I am just happy to get my money back [:)]

[Arctic Blast]

ORIGINAL: Joe Black

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

I'd say keep it going if you still want to, Joe. [:)]

Okay [:D]

And to spell out "Talk to Seller" level at Paypal. When you raise a dispute this is the first level. Paypal do not get involved, they just register the start of the dispute process and leave you to "Talk to the Seller". If it's resolved then the dispute is closed by you and Paypal never get involved.

If you are getting nowhere, then you raise the "Talk to Seller" to the next level. At this level you lose control of the dispute. Paypal take over and talk to the seller. They then make a decision and that is that. If they find in your favor, they recover your money, easier to do with a big company like Steam, obviously.

I'm glad you got in to a bit more detail about the dispute process, because I had been under the impression that there was only one. You dispute a charge, that's it.

So if I understand correctly, at the time of the account hijinx, you had taken it only to the first level where Paypal themselves aren't involved, correct?

[joeblack1862]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

ORIGINAL: Joe Black

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

I'd say keep it going if you still want to, Joe. [:)]

Okay [:D]

And to spell out "Talk to Seller" level at Paypal. When you raise a dispute this is the first level. Paypal do not get involved, they just register the start of the dispute process and leave you to "Talk to the Seller". If it's resolved then the dispute is closed by you and Paypal never get involved.

If you are getting nowhere, then you raise the "Talk to Seller" to the next level. At this level you lose control of the dispute. Paypal take over and talk to the seller. They then make a decision and that is that. If they find in your favor, they recover your money, easier to do with a big company like Steam, obviously.

I'm glad you got in to a bit more detail about the dispute process, because I had been under the impression that there was only one. You dispute a charge, that's it.

So if I understand correctly, at the time of the account hijinx, you had taken it only to the first level where Paypal themselves aren't involved, correct?

That is correct. The dispute process is very clear on that.

Paypal want you to try to resolve it without bringing them in but they want you to set the "clock ticking" as it were. There is a time limit in which you can raise a dispute, so you should always raise it immediately, and leave it at this level until you think you have run out of options talking to the seller.

To take it to the next level, just go to the dispute and escalate, it is very straight forward. At that point it is Paypal talking to the seller.

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Let me invite everyone to put up or shut up, on this one, at least as regards Matrix Games. If you want them to go on publishing DRM-free games, YOU are going to have to BUY as many as you can possibly play. They can't stay in business otherwise. And no more grousing about the prices please! If the games are worth investing your time in, they're also worth forty or sixty or eighty-dollars.

DAMN! You Prince! You just solved my guilt and boredom problem all in one fell swoop! [:D] . . . now lets see, which one do I buy today.

But yes! Absolutely THANKS to Matrix for no invasive software in order to play their games [:)]

[joeblack1862]

Final Installment of the Steam Saga:

I laid out my in a constructive manner in my last email to them, pointing out the process issues. I made it clear that this was not a personal attack on them or their integrity, just constructive critisism of there processes. I asked them to close my account as I no longer had faith in the method they use to control games.

In reply, I received a full apology from them and "deep regret" for the whole episode. They have told me that they will be using my ticket for training purposes as they don't want this to happen again. They asked me to reconsider closing my account.

I thanked them for the considerate mail and asked them to go ahead and close the account. I pointed out that they, along with many publishers had lost contact with their paying customers. I said I was willing to accept installation activation (as per Matrix, Gamers Gate) or no activation on old games (as per GOG) but their current method was not to my liking and this incident had shown why it was not customer freindly.

So I have closed my account, lost the games I owned on Steam (fortunately I had played most of them, and the others were old games that I will buy elsewhere). I actually feel very happy with my decision. It feels like I have broken a habit (just like an adict). I am no longer willing to bend over and take one just to play a computer game. Thanks to companies like Matrix, GOG (and to a lesser degree Gamers Gate) for listening to their customers and treating them like.... well.... customers.

[Arctic Blast]

ORIGINAL: Joe Black

Final Installment of the Steam Saga:

I laid out my in a constructive manner in my last email to them, pointing out the process issues. I made it clear that this was not a personal attack on them or their integrity, just constructive critisism of there processes. I asked them to close my account as I no longer had faith in the method they use to control games.

In reply, I received a full apology from them and "deep regret" for the whole episode. They have told me that they will be using my ticket for training purposes as they don't want this to happen again. They asked me to reconsider closing my account.

I thanked them for the considerate mail and asked them to go ahead and close the account. I pointed out that they, along with many publishers had lost contact with their paying customers. I said I was willing to accept installation activation (as per Matrix, Gamers Gate) or no activation on old games (as per GOG) but their current method was not to my liking and this incident had shown why it was not customer freindly.

So I have closed my account, lost the games I owned on Steam (fortunately I had played most of them, and the others were old games that I will buy elsewhere). I actually feel very happy with my decision. It feels like I have broken a habit (just like an adict). I am no longer willing to bend over and take one just to play a computer game. Thanks to companies like Matrix, GOG (and to a lesser degree Gamers Gate) for listening to their customers and treating them like.... well.... customers.

Well, so long as it reached an outcome that you're pleased with, and it seems like you are, then it's all good in the end, right? The whole situation was quite a mess, though.

If you don't mind the way that Gamersgate works, you might also want to look at Direct2Drive. They're similar, but you download installer packages that you can back up somewhere. They're standard installers that don't need to access anything before running. The one big minus, if DRM is a concern for you, is that D2D is pretty terrible when it comes to mentioning third party DRM used on the games...so you have to do a little side research.

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: Joe Black

Final Installment of the Steam Saga:

I laid out my in a constructive manner in my last email to them, pointing out the process issues. I made it clear that this was not a personal attack on them or their integrity, just constructive critisism of there processes. I asked them to close my account as I no longer had faith in the method they use to control games.

In reply, I received a full apology from them and "deep regret" for the whole episode. They have told me that they will be using my ticket for training purposes as they don't want this to happen again. They asked me to reconsider closing my account.

I thanked them for the considerate mail and asked them to go ahead and close the account. I pointed out that they, along with many publishers had lost contact with their paying customers. I said I was willing to accept installation activation (as per Matrix, Gamers Gate) or no activation on old games (as per GOG) but their current method was not to my liking and this incident had shown why it was not customer freindly.

So I have closed my account, lost the games I owned on Steam (fortunately I had played most of them, and the others were old games that I will buy elsewhere). I actually feel very happy with my decision. It feels like I have broken a habit (just like an adict). I am no longer willing to bend over and take one just to play a computer game. Thanks to companies like Matrix, GOG (and to a lesser degree Gamers Gate) for listening to their customers and treating them like.... well.... customers.

Good to see another enlightened convert.

Too bad it often takes horrible incidents such as this before realization hits.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Joe Black

Final Installment of the Steam Saga:

I laid out my in a constructive manner in my last email to them, pointing out the process issues. I made it clear that this was not a personal attack on them or their integrity, just constructive critisism of there processes. I asked them to close my account as I no longer had faith in the method they use to control games.

In reply, I received a full apology from them and "deep regret" for the whole episode. They have told me that they will be using my ticket for training purposes as they don't want this to happen again. They asked me to reconsider closing my account.

I thanked them for the considerate mail and asked them to go ahead and close the account. I pointed out that they, along with many publishers had lost contact with their paying customers. I said I was willing to accept installation activation (as per Matrix, Gamers Gate) or no activation on old games (as per GOG) but their current method was not to my liking and this incident had shown why it was not customer freindly.

So I have closed my account, lost the games I owned on Steam (fortunately I had played most of them, and the others were old games that I will buy elsewhere). I actually feel very happy with my decision. It feels like I have broken a habit (just like an adict). I am no longer willing to bend over and take one just to play a computer game. Thanks to companies like Matrix, GOG (and to a lesser degree Gamers Gate) for listening to their customers and treating them like.... well.... customers.

Hats off to you for having kept such an "even-strain" through this mini-ordeal.

I'd have wanted someones head on a pole.

[joeblack1862]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast
If you don't mind the way that Gamersgate works, you might also want to look at Direct2Drive. They're similar, but you download installer packages that you can back up somewhere. They're standard installers that don't need to access anything before running. The one big minus, if DRM is a concern for you, is that D2D is pretty terrible when it comes to mentioning third party DRM used on the games...so you have to do a little side research.

Thanks AB,

I'll get a look at D2D. I was holding off because I thought they were more draconian than GG. It looks like they are actually better. So with D2D, just to confirm, once you download the application and the installer it will install anywhere without activation. They sound like a good option.

[joeblack1862]

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Hats off to you for having kept such an "even-strain" through this mini-ordeal.

I'd have wanted someones head on a pole.

Thanks for the compliment [:)]

Believe me, at times it wasn't easy, but I have always felt that ramming the facts down someone's throat is often more fun and more productive [:D]

[joeblack1862]

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

Good to see another enlightened convert.

Too bad it often takes horrible incidents such as this before realization hits.

Ain't that the truth.

Why use such a system when it appears that there are companies willing to give you the same service but without the draconian restrictions?

Doesn't matter how old you are, you live and learn.

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: Joe Black

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

Good to see another enlightened convert.

Too bad it often takes horrible incidents such as this before realization hits.

Ain't that the truth.

Why use such a system when it appears that there are companies willing to give you the same service but without the draconian restrictions?

Doesn't matter how old you are, you live and learn.

I've hoped more people would pay attention to stories such as yours and take a stand.

Unfortunately, some don't seem to care as long as they're not affected (yet) and keep enabling these companies' abuse of their customers. I blame them for the recent proliferation since they're still forking over money and sticking their heads in the sand about the issue. Even going as far as defending it.

It may sound harsh, turning on others like that, but when large companies do such a thing it shows that they don't listen to their customer's wants & needs. They will eventually take notice of large amounts not giving them money anymore. That is, if they can man up and not try something like blaming such lower sales on piracy as an easy out.

[Arctic Blast]

ORIGINAL: Joe Black

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast
If you don't mind the way that Gamersgate works, you might also want to look at Direct2Drive. They're similar, but you download installer packages that you can back up somewhere. They're standard installers that don't need to access anything before running. The one big minus, if DRM is a concern for you, is that D2D is pretty terrible when it comes to mentioning third party DRM used on the games...so you have to do a little side research.

Thanks AB,

I'll get a look at D2D. I was holding off because I thought they were more draconian than GG. It looks like they are actually better. So with D2D, just to confirm, once you download the application and the installer it will install anywhere without activation. They sound like a good option.

Yes. There is no activation used on the installer itself. You actually download a game install package. You can use the D2D downloader if you want to (which also works on Fileplanet, if you ever go there), or you can install Gamespy Comrade, or just download using your browser or download manager.

Just be careful of 3rd party DRM if that's something of concern to you. You will have to do a bit more research of your own in to what a lot of the games use, as D2D isn't anywhere near as good as GG or Impulse at reporting that.