Big and complicated and super detailed isn't always a winner

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Infierno]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I much prefer complex wargames and generally won't touch simple games.

That said, complexity for it's own sake is also a huge turn off. I haven't played WitE in years, not because it was too complex, but because the combat model was a black box that produced strange results, and because the "Eastern Front" produced by the game did not bear even a passing resemblance to my understanding of the real thing (think carpets of entrenched Soviet troops extending back several hexes...).

Actually I think that the Eastern Front from 1941-1945 is very difficult, if not impossible, to model in a game, because it will virtually never resemble the real thing. Between the many unique factors and the fact that both sides made huge mistakes which can generally avoided by players with the advantage of hindsight, without a bunch of very restrictive rules, the Eastern Front will simply look different in most games.

I also don't care for WiF, not because it is too complex, but because I don't like its air/land/sea play mechanics (or the fact that the Europe=only scenarios, which I wanted, were AFAIK, never finished...).

That's why my favorite East Front games are the Panzer Campaigns series which are very large, but not especially complex, and which focus on the operational rather than strategic level.

Very well said.

[MrsWargamer]

Thanks for getting back to expressing some good opinions.

Remember guys, I HAVE these monster games Some times, I'm actually in your camp with detail, some days not
Thrill of being a woman. Today I'm siding more with the complex leaning crowd, yesterday, I was all about KISS.
Tomorrow, I might go full bore rack em up and play something big.

Man, I wish I had a nice big house with a spare room at least 15 feet on a side, something I could put a 4x8 table in, with a locked door, so no one could stupidly enter, open a window on a breezy day and bugger 2 months of hardcore gaming. It would be a shame to have to kill my spouse, they're so hard to find . Trophy husbands, men who understand a wargaming wife's needs

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[zakblood]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Thanks for getting back to expressing some good opinions.

Remember guys, I HAVE these monster games Some times, I'm actually in your camp with detail, some days not
Thrill of being a woman. Today I'm siding more with the complex leaning crowd, yesterday, I was all about KISS.
Tomorrow, I might go full bore rack em up and play something big.

Man, I wish I had a nice big house with a spare room at least 15 feet on a side, something I could put a 4x8 table in, with a locked door, so no one could stupidly enter, open a window on a breezy day and bugger 2 months of hardcore gaming. It would be a shame to have to kill my spouse, they're so hard to find . Trophy husbands, men who understand a wargaming wife's needs

sorry my partners fine, understand my mans cave as she has her sowing and crochet rooms and then taken over the summer house and does clay work, so my man caves is mostly my own space, pc wise as long as i keep the printer filled and the pc working, both, eg laptop and desktop with her patterns on, i'm free to play as i please, which is next to none now days, as she doesn't think testing and writing notes is playing, so she has no idea on plans for dungeons needing drawing out, then again she only also plays mostly FB games, but did beat me once one of my games, which i needed help progressing in, so shows my level of skill right out of the blue, not saying she beat me either, i got hammered on her first try lol

[wodin]

I'm all for choice. Just winds me up when someone starts asking for all games released to suit their needs only.

You'd think I was a monster game only man. Far from it. Take Command, I tried but just found it beyond me. However it makes me happy a war game like that is out there. Same with GG games, I love reading about them but just can't play them!

Game like Dc Barbarossa is my limit. Though I love it WW1 Gold is pushing the boundaries for me.

So even though I don't play these big games I'm happy we have them around.


I am waiting though for a monster tactical game...anyone

As for casual games they do the least for me. I don't like to much abstraction. I also dislike the rock, paper scissors mechanic. So Panze r Korps and the like is not on my shopping list. Again though it's good they are out there. Though I think we've seen enough of the PK type games for now. I did like Battle Academy that was fun. Another mechanic I don't like is puzzle type games, where you have to work out the exact way to win. I enjoyed Heroes of Normandy but the smaller scenarios felt like a puzzle than a wargame.

What we should be asking for is quality no matter the size of game. Looks good, plays good and well priced. Also a monster tactical war game that finally has all the mechanics to do it right. So individual soldiers monitored, multi level buildings, good ballistic and damage model, infantry not cannon fodder, realistic tactics pay off, great tacai, street fighting mechanics, WEGO, comms model, rpg elements, individual soldier stats\skills, combined arms, obstacles\bunkers, trench system etc, engineers, air drops, weather conditions including ground mist etc, logistics, sewer system, tree bursts, macro commands (so you can give a whole group of squads an order to move then assault area the soldiers will then move up, the HMG units will move to positions to give suppression and covering fire, a small reserve be kept back then the rest attack maybe from different directions using bounding fire, the HMG suppressing area being attacked. That is what I'd love to see, obviously the player good do it all at a micro level if they wished. To see the AI do that would be a joy.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: wodin
As for casual games they do the least for me. I don't like to much abstraction. I also dislike the rock, paper scissors mechanic...Another mechanic I don't like is puzzle type games, where you have to work out the exact way to win.

Hear, hear, my thoughts exactly.

ORIGINAL: wodinAlso a monster tactical war game that finally has all the mechanics to do it right.

The last game that ticked this box for me was CMBB...maybe Steel Tigers will fill the gap, or the WWII versions of the Campaign Series, although they are platoon-level rather than squad/vehicle.

[wodin]

76mms

I found the Squad Battles series was close.

I too await the next Steel Panthers

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: wodin

76mms

I found the Squad Battles series was close.

I too await the next Steel Panthers

I have several of the Squad Battles series. Like Panzer Campaigns, sometimes the interface drives me off. Granted, once you master the interface, it is game to game usually the same for all.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

That's why my favorite East Front games are the Panzer Campaigns series which are very large, but not especially complex, and which focus on the operational rather than strategic level.

Did you try their Strategic War series? I did not but wonder if this is good.
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/StrategicWar.html

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: wodin
I found the Squad Battles series was close.

Never tried those; I've looked, but there was something which put me off them...lack of multistory buildings, or lack of an editor, or something else that was a deal-breaker for me...

[wodin]

I think it's great we have a choice. For someone to call out for one particular type of wargame to no longer be developed because they don't like them I find rather selfish.

One person's meat is another person's poison.

Seems we live in a time where it's all about me,me,me.


We should be celebrating the fact we have these clever folk developing wargames for us to enjoy.

[wodin]

Lack of multi story annoying.

However it does a lot right other tactical games don't do.

PBEM over at Blitz community brings the best out of them.

I wish the source code had been given over as it's only a couple of features \mechanics from being perfect

Covers lots of Wars though doesn't do well post Vietnam.

If you're a tactical gamer I feel they are a must play at some point.

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: wodin
I found the Squad Battles series was close.

Never tried those; I've looked, but there was something which put me off them...lack of multistory buildings, or lack of an editor, or something else that was a deal-breaker for me...

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: wodin

I think it's great we have a choice. For someone to call out for one particular type of wargame to no longer be developed because they don't like them I find rather selfish.

One person's meat is another person's poison.

Seems we live in a time where it's all about me,me,me.


We should be celebrating the fact we have these clever folk developing wargames for us to enjoy.

your eyes are getting old dear.

NO one has advocated NOT making anything.
I HAVE advocated a desire for more of something.

It's like people claiming 'drama' hehe, there's no drama here. But some of the reading comprehension might be failing. Perhaps you just need to go to bed

[wodin]

Most likely.

Sorry if I misread.

[altipueri]

Has anybody actually finished War In The Pacific - Admirals Edition ?


I bought it just so I could talk in a deep voice about having the world's biggest wargame but never played it. Once I saw there were over 4,000 pieces to give instructions to for just the first move my heart sank.

Well actually I had a little go at the Attu/Kiska scenario.


I'm down to about two or three hours as my game limit now.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[tdavie]

MrsWargamer;a couple of times you mention that wargames are games and should not be work. Permit me to tack the opposite position; I want to be able to study, to read, to pour over maps and to sweat the small details. A lifetime's worth of being a lab tech did that to me. If a game doesn't have a learning, it won't hold my interest for very long.

Work can be (and was) fun when I wasn't euthanizing animals. It was thrilling when the gas chromatographs worked perfecttly - and yes, fun. It was fun when benchtop chemistry worked. Etc.

In other words there is no split between work and fun for me. Not always; ut they can be one and the same.

So, big, complex and detailed (but elegant) games are what appeal to me.

Tom

[zuluhour]

4 times here. WITP-AE has been played to conclusion many times, I've played till Apr '46.

* all PBEM