Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Moderator: Joel Billings
Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Probably the one and only Axis AAR I'll ever do.
Still looking for my first Axis victory, but getting better bit by bit.
This GC41 is under the current 1.02.24 patch with MSAG as my opponent.
General impressions so far:
-- Supply isn't the easiest thing for the Axis but once you have been through the wringer a few times it can be managed effectively enough.
-- Air losses seem quite reasonable as long as it isn't constantly GS on. The Bf109F2 models will run low in the waning months of Fall 1941, recon planes start out plentiful but the short range stuff can grow scarce due to attrition over time. Tactical and level bomber losses in 1941 are made good over the first winter as long as they aren't used extensively during that time.
-- Despite the number of good German generals, there also a good number of rather mediocre ones that start the campaign in command of corps and armies. Low political ratings mean that AI Adolf will be sacking generals here and there over time. Someone like Model needs a home fairly quickly before he gets sent off to command an Army Group which is not an effective posting.
-- Axis allies. Yes, they have the triple whammy of poor leadership that sinks their CV in combat, low national morale that means they lose often, and a thin manpower pool in particular for the Rumanians. Still, there are a few decent enough units if you know where to look. More on this later.
-- Except against a human player that is unfamiliar with the Soviets and/or the game, few Axis players can expect victory in 1941. You have to be prepared to go the distance against an enemy that will outnumber you in units and manpower for the great majority of the game. And they only get stronger over time if you can't control their numbers to some degree as the game goes on. Fortunately after 1943, their manpower multiples drop which is the one silver lining as the war goes on from there.
-- I have yet to have real issues with my panzer divisions. Sure they lose equipment and take time to replenish, but if you don't drive them into the ground through Spring of 1942 they can be brought up to strength in most categories. More on this later also.
Still looking for my first Axis victory, but getting better bit by bit.
This GC41 is under the current 1.02.24 patch with MSAG as my opponent.
General impressions so far:
-- Supply isn't the easiest thing for the Axis but once you have been through the wringer a few times it can be managed effectively enough.
-- Air losses seem quite reasonable as long as it isn't constantly GS on. The Bf109F2 models will run low in the waning months of Fall 1941, recon planes start out plentiful but the short range stuff can grow scarce due to attrition over time. Tactical and level bomber losses in 1941 are made good over the first winter as long as they aren't used extensively during that time.
-- Despite the number of good German generals, there also a good number of rather mediocre ones that start the campaign in command of corps and armies. Low political ratings mean that AI Adolf will be sacking generals here and there over time. Someone like Model needs a home fairly quickly before he gets sent off to command an Army Group which is not an effective posting.
-- Axis allies. Yes, they have the triple whammy of poor leadership that sinks their CV in combat, low national morale that means they lose often, and a thin manpower pool in particular for the Rumanians. Still, there are a few decent enough units if you know where to look. More on this later.
-- Except against a human player that is unfamiliar with the Soviets and/or the game, few Axis players can expect victory in 1941. You have to be prepared to go the distance against an enemy that will outnumber you in units and manpower for the great majority of the game. And they only get stronger over time if you can't control their numbers to some degree as the game goes on. Fortunately after 1943, their manpower multiples drop which is the one silver lining as the war goes on from there.
-- I have yet to have real issues with my panzer divisions. Sure they lose equipment and take time to replenish, but if you don't drive them into the ground through Spring of 1942 they can be brought up to strength in most categories. More on this later also.
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Turn 1 Air planning
The default air directive settings have several recon missions set. These are turned off as no recon will be flown for the week. The seven preset ground attack directives for each Luftflotte only need to be modified somewhat and they will work for me. I am really not looking to build dozens of turn 1 directives for a more perfect result. Consequently, only a few minutes are needed for that setup.
All missions will fly Day 1 only at an altitude of 15,000 feet.
Required aircraft are set to 0 (auto) and 12 escort. Strike numbers are auto.
All fighters and level bombers are loaded out with drop tanks.
Luftflotte 1
Target 179,147 area 9
Luftflotte 2
Target 180,151 area 10
Target 184,160 area 8
Luftflotte 4
Target 213,202 area 10
Target 192,181 area 10
Target 193,186 area 8
Target 215,205 area 5
Estimated air losses are 2,600 Soviet to less than 150 Axis.
Finally, a naval patrol will fly against Ventspils with Fliegerfuhrer Ostsee equipped with mines.
Target 166,129 area 1. Altitude 9,000 flying friendly phase on days 1,2,4,5,7. This is just an insurance policy. I will be sending a regiment from Totenkopf to secure the city on turn 1. The naval patrols are only meant to isolate the port if the ground action fails to work.
The default air directive settings have several recon missions set. These are turned off as no recon will be flown for the week. The seven preset ground attack directives for each Luftflotte only need to be modified somewhat and they will work for me. I am really not looking to build dozens of turn 1 directives for a more perfect result. Consequently, only a few minutes are needed for that setup.
All missions will fly Day 1 only at an altitude of 15,000 feet.
Required aircraft are set to 0 (auto) and 12 escort. Strike numbers are auto.
All fighters and level bombers are loaded out with drop tanks.
Luftflotte 1
Target 179,147 area 9
Luftflotte 2
Target 180,151 area 10
Target 184,160 area 8
Luftflotte 4
Target 213,202 area 10
Target 192,181 area 10
Target 193,186 area 8
Target 215,205 area 5
Estimated air losses are 2,600 Soviet to less than 150 Axis.
Finally, a naval patrol will fly against Ventspils with Fliegerfuhrer Ostsee equipped with mines.
Target 166,129 area 1. Altitude 9,000 flying friendly phase on days 1,2,4,5,7. This is just an insurance policy. I will be sending a regiment from Totenkopf to secure the city on turn 1. The naval patrols are only meant to isolate the port if the ground action fails to work.
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Some rain is falling in the Gulf of Riga and in the Baltic States. The air phase is complete.


Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Logistics work
All German corps priority 3.
14 Polish depots set to priority 4.
Biala Podlaska
Bydgoszcz
Chelm
Katowice
Krakow
Lodz
Lublin
Lukow
Radom
Rzeszow
Suwalki
Warsaw
Wyszkow
Zamosc
German depot added at Gleiwitz priority 4.
Danzig set to export port priority 2. Memel import port priority 3.
Two RADs transferring from Norway TB and two road construction battalions sent there from the map in return. Arrive in 3 turns.
Upon capture, new depots in Lvov, Brest Litovsk, Baranovichi, Minsk, Kaunas. All priority 4.
All German corps priority 3.
14 Polish depots set to priority 4.
Biala Podlaska
Bydgoszcz
Chelm
Katowice
Krakow
Lodz
Lublin
Lukow
Radom
Rzeszow
Suwalki
Warsaw
Wyszkow
Zamosc
German depot added at Gleiwitz priority 4.
Danzig set to export port priority 2. Memel import port priority 3.
Two RADs transferring from Norway TB and two road construction battalions sent there from the map in return. Arrive in 3 turns.
Upon capture, new depots in Lvov, Brest Litovsk, Baranovichi, Minsk, Kaunas. All priority 4.
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
for an export port in Germany, pri 1 is ok. The routine is that as an export port it gets allocation in an initial round so that should be safe to secure its supplies (I tend to use Stettin as my location). In turn it makes it easier to build a chain from the target port if that is what you want to do (often not feasible due to a lack of a rail link).
Just one of those things that in practice is a bit different from the Axis pov to setting up a Soviet supply net
Just one of those things that in practice is a bit different from the Axis pov to setting up a Soviet supply net
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Kriegsspieler
- Posts: 264
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Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
OMG - the Norway TB has two RAD's hidden in it?
That's a huge and slightly unwelcome thing to discover, 15 turns as I am into my current game as the Axis.
That's a huge and slightly unwelcome thing to discover, 15 turns as I am into my current game as the Axis.
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Opening shots
The Army Group Center scheme of maneuver consists of three phases along the Brest Litovsk-Minsk axis. Ground support from Luftflotte 2 is only available during the initial phase.
Phase I
The opening attack is a combined effort in the area of Brest Litovsk by two infantry corps from 9th Army, which would conduct the main attacks using Wilhelm Fahrmbacher’s 7th, and Gotthard Heinrici’s 43rd. 2nd Panzer Army’s 293rd Division of 13th Corps under Walter Schroth would use regimental formations to clear fortifications in the area before elements of the three infantry corps advance north towards Iatsevichi with the fall of Brest Litovsk.
Phase II
1st Cavalry Division to occupy Iatsevichi and extend with regiments to the northeast. Following them is 3rd Panzer Division led by one Walter Model. 3rd Panzer will conduct a march east of the Iatsevichi-Minsk main rail line and then turn northwest, finally engaging the Soviet 100th and 108th Rifle Divisions immediately southeast of Minsk.
Phase III
24th and 47th Motorized Corps will secure the Baranovichi-Minsk rail line. The Soviet 36th Tank Division will be engaged and pushed out of the Baranovichi area as well as the 55th Rifle Division at Slutsk.

The Army Group Center scheme of maneuver consists of three phases along the Brest Litovsk-Minsk axis. Ground support from Luftflotte 2 is only available during the initial phase.
Phase I
The opening attack is a combined effort in the area of Brest Litovsk by two infantry corps from 9th Army, which would conduct the main attacks using Wilhelm Fahrmbacher’s 7th, and Gotthard Heinrici’s 43rd. 2nd Panzer Army’s 293rd Division of 13th Corps under Walter Schroth would use regimental formations to clear fortifications in the area before elements of the three infantry corps advance north towards Iatsevichi with the fall of Brest Litovsk.
Phase II
1st Cavalry Division to occupy Iatsevichi and extend with regiments to the northeast. Following them is 3rd Panzer Division led by one Walter Model. 3rd Panzer will conduct a march east of the Iatsevichi-Minsk main rail line and then turn northwest, finally engaging the Soviet 100th and 108th Rifle Divisions immediately southeast of Minsk.
Phase III
24th and 47th Motorized Corps will secure the Baranovichi-Minsk rail line. The Soviet 36th Tank Division will be engaged and pushed out of the Baranovichi area as well as the 55th Rifle Division at Slutsk.

Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
The Army Group Center scheme of maneuver along the Suwalki-Alytus-Minsk axis is considerably more complicated due to the need to achieve multiple goals. In total, the five goals include:
1. Clear the rail line from Gumbinnen to Kaunas
2. After eliminating soviet battalion sized formations in the southwestern portion of the Alytus Corridor, pass elements of 9th Army through and capture Kaunas. Vilnius is undefended and can be taken on the march unless routed Soviet elements gather there, in which case the city should be bypassed.
3. Defending Soviet elements at Alytus and Orany as well as 126th Rifle Division to their north are to be driven off, while advancing infantry from 9th Army as far east as Voronovo.
4. Upon completion of these tasks, 3rd Panzer Group will pass through, establishing blocking positions north and northwest of Minsk with 39th and 57th Motorized Corps. The 39th will also send elements to the area Postavy-Voropaevo to link up with Army Group North's 4th Panzer Group.
5. 57th Motorized Corps secure Minsk and link up with 2nd Panzer Group.

1. Clear the rail line from Gumbinnen to Kaunas
2. After eliminating soviet battalion sized formations in the southwestern portion of the Alytus Corridor, pass elements of 9th Army through and capture Kaunas. Vilnius is undefended and can be taken on the march unless routed Soviet elements gather there, in which case the city should be bypassed.
3. Defending Soviet elements at Alytus and Orany as well as 126th Rifle Division to their north are to be driven off, while advancing infantry from 9th Army as far east as Voronovo.
4. Upon completion of these tasks, 3rd Panzer Group will pass through, establishing blocking positions north and northwest of Minsk with 39th and 57th Motorized Corps. The 39th will also send elements to the area Postavy-Voropaevo to link up with Army Group North's 4th Panzer Group.
5. 57th Motorized Corps secure Minsk and link up with 2nd Panzer Group.

Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
The result of the attacks by Army Group Center.

There were a pair of failed hasty attacks but the main goal of minimizing combat and preventing Soviet units from routing outside the pocket were largely achieved.

There were a pair of failed hasty attacks but the main goal of minimizing combat and preventing Soviet units from routing outside the pocket were largely achieved.
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
The scheme of maneuver for Army Group North included the following goals.
1. Seize the Baltic ports of Liepaja, Ventspils and Riga.
2. Cross over the Daugava River with motorized forces at Daugavapils.
3. Effect a link up with 3rd Panzer Army southeast of Daugavpils.
4. Create a cordon along the Daugava to prevent units from the Soviet Northwestern Front from escaping.

1. Seize the Baltic ports of Liepaja, Ventspils and Riga.
2. Cross over the Daugava River with motorized forces at Daugavapils.
3. Effect a link up with 3rd Panzer Army southeast of Daugavpils.
4. Create a cordon along the Daugava to prevent units from the Soviet Northwestern Front from escaping.

- EwaldvonKleist
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Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
You really take encirclement seriously in AGC, do you?
The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players
WitE2&RtW3 tester
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players
WitE2&RtW3 tester
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HardLuckYetAgain
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Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
M60A3TTS wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:02 am The result of the attacks by Army Group Center.
There were a pair of failed hasty attacks but the main goal of minimizing combat and preventing Soviet units from routing outside the pocket were largely achieved.
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HardLuckYetAgain
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Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Sure looks that way EwaldvonKleistEwaldvonKleist wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:17 pm You really take encirclement seriously in AGC, do you?
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Thanks for the info. Next week Danzig will send 12,000 tons of freight by ship to Memel, so I was happy with that result.loki100 wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:46 pm for an export port in Germany, pri 1 is ok. The routine is that as an export port it gets allocation in an initial round so that should be safe to secure its supplies (I tend to use Stettin as my location). In turn it makes it easier to build a chain from the target port if that is what you want to do (often not feasible due to a lack of a rail link).
Just one of those things that in practice is a bit different from the Axis pov to setting up a Soviet supply net
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Carlkay had started an AAR on supplying Axis forces that covers this as well as some other excellent points. He hasn't added to it in a while but even the info of the early turns is worth a read.Kriegsspieler wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:51 pm OMG - the Norway TB has two RAD's hidden in it?
That's a huge and slightly unwelcome thing to discover, 15 turns as I am into my current game as the Axis.![]()
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
You inspired this walled-in approach from one AAR, combined with the results of my other ongoing PvP with Quantas. That game featured a terrible set of T1 pockets, all but one being cracked. The resulting turns combined with a host of other mistakes has us largely playing out the string until October 1942 when I will lose on VPs. No complaints though, it's set this game up for considerably better prospects...hopefully.HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:27 pmSure looks that way EwaldvonKleistEwaldvonKleist wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:17 pm You really take encirclement seriously in AGC, do you?100% Soviets have to attack to even try to get out of that encirclement.
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
The results of the attacks of Army Group North. All objectives accomplished.

This is the extent of the attempted pocketing for now. Up next will be Army Group South with a different set of priorities.

This is the extent of the attempted pocketing for now. Up next will be Army Group South with a different set of priorities.
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
The scheme of maneuver for Army Group South involves the creation of one small pocket to snare a few Soviet divisions.

The major effort includes the goal of capturing Lvov, Proskurov, and Tarnopol.
There are no large scale pockets to be had in this area and so the basic decision comes down to whether to activate the southern front. In this plan, it will be done. The reasoning behind this is it will be better to eliminate at least a pair of Soviet mechanized corps in the Lvov area than the rifle divisions that might be surrounded further south.
17th Army will drive east and move to clear the main rail line to Lvov. 6th Army will tie down elements of the Soviet 4th and 15th Mechanized Corps, clearing a path to Brody in the process. 1st Panzer Army will then exploit the gap and seize Proskurov and Tarnopol.
Additional units from Panzer Group 1 will move south along the Seret River to hinder the withdrawal of Soviet forces from the east. It will not prevent some from escaping but it should be enough to destroy Vlassov's 4th Mechanized Corps along with parts of Ryabyshev's 8th and Karpezo's 15th Mechanized Corps.
1st Panzer Group receives 4th Panzer Division and 46 Motorized Corps from the 2nd Panzer Group.

The major effort includes the goal of capturing Lvov, Proskurov, and Tarnopol.
There are no large scale pockets to be had in this area and so the basic decision comes down to whether to activate the southern front. In this plan, it will be done. The reasoning behind this is it will be better to eliminate at least a pair of Soviet mechanized corps in the Lvov area than the rifle divisions that might be surrounded further south.
17th Army will drive east and move to clear the main rail line to Lvov. 6th Army will tie down elements of the Soviet 4th and 15th Mechanized Corps, clearing a path to Brody in the process. 1st Panzer Army will then exploit the gap and seize Proskurov and Tarnopol.
Additional units from Panzer Group 1 will move south along the Seret River to hinder the withdrawal of Soviet forces from the east. It will not prevent some from escaping but it should be enough to destroy Vlassov's 4th Mechanized Corps along with parts of Ryabyshev's 8th and Karpezo's 15th Mechanized Corps.
1st Panzer Group receives 4th Panzer Division and 46 Motorized Corps from the 2nd Panzer Group.
Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Army Group South successfully created the desired pocket and captured the target cities.
1st Panzer Group was able to reach an area southeast of Chertkov so that any escaping units will have a longer distance to travel.

Air losses during the ground action phase next to final results.

1st Panzer Group was able to reach an area southeast of Chertkov so that any escaping units will have a longer distance to travel.

Air losses during the ground action phase next to final results.

Re: Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome
Final ground losses in the first week. It is not an impressive number at all, but the real killing takes place next week...if the pockets hold that is.

Here is one tank engagement at Brody that yielded the greatest number of Soviet AFVS in a single battle this week. No panzers here though, just Obstfelder's trusty PaK36 37mm AT guns.


Here is one tank engagement at Brody that yielded the greatest number of Soviet AFVS in a single battle this week. No panzers here though, just Obstfelder's trusty PaK36 37mm AT guns.


