Führer Begleit Brigade Order of Battle

[JohnO36]

Hi Davide. Happy New Year 2024! I hope all is well with you.

In my somewhat limited spare time, I've been playing the Wacht am Rhein scenario against the AI opponent, and have now reached the 1800 turn of 17 December, at which time a card appears for the Führer Begleit Brigade (FBB). Game Version 1.0.6, WIndows 10. When I played the card, I discovered a missing unit in the FBB Order of Battle when the unit is placed on the map edge (which is replicated in the card description popup), which is the Panzer Battalion! I believe this battalion to be a PzKw Mark IV (presumably Ausf H/J in December 1944) battalion with about 40 tanks from the historical records I've seen. The StuG battalion is present, but not the Panzer battalion.

Here is the OOB of the FBB according to the German OOB PDF document that came with the game:

Fuhrer Begleit Brigade: Oberst Otto Remer (18 dec )
( Combat Strength16 dec.1944 = 7.000 )

1.Panzer Bataillon (Schappauf)
1.Pz.Grenadier Bataillon (Fabian)
200. Sturmgeschutz Brigade (28 StuG) (Frantz)
Aufklarung Abteilung
Artillerie Bataillon
828. Mot.Bataillon (Mickley)
673. Flak Abteilung
928. Bicycle Bataillon (Gaum)

The OOB document does not list the number of tanks in 1. Panzer Bataillon. The CMH Green Book lists the Mark IV battalion (from the GD Division) on Page 292 of the Ardennes Campaign Volume 7-8-1 (author Hugh M. Cole), again no count of Mk IV AFVs. My recollection of Charles B. MacDonald's excellent Ardennes history "A Time for Trumpets" is 80 total AFVs in the FBB, but my copy of this book is packed away and I can't easily locate it (I read this a LONG time ago). Hence my best guess of about 40 Mark IV Panzers in the FBB's 1. Panzer Bataillon.

Here is my question: Was the battalion inadvertently omitted, or is it simply delayed? I let the game play out two more turns to see if the FBB deploys on the eastern map edge automatically (out to 0600 18 December, but the card remains). Suggestion: If the battalion is merely delayed, deploy it with the others but with Zero Action Points and the Orange Exclamation Box so that the games players know that it is enroute.

I request that you please look into this question. Thanks!

Cheers!

John

[nikdav]

Hi John, you are right, for some reason the FBB Pz.Bataillon disappeared.
Was a mixed PzIV - StuG unit with perhaps 40/50 vehicles.
I try asap to fix the oob for the actual 1.07 openbeta.

Thanks again for reporting !

Davide


(History of PzKorps Grossdeutschland vol.2 - Helmuth Spaeter )

FBB_44.jpg (251.93 KiB) Viewed 1962 times

[JohnO36]

Thanks, Davide, that is good news - I'm glad I didn't waste your time. I look forward to Version 1.07!

Some discussion on the FBB, and XLVII Panzer Korps, follows if you are interested:

I do find it interesting that you state that the FBB Panzer Bataillon was a mixed Mark IV/StuG unit - all "paper" order of battles I've seen (including the Spaeter reference you show in your response) have it as a pure Mark IV Panzer unit. However, it is also well known that Germany had serious shortages of tanks in late 1944 (which is partly because that tank turrets are more difficult to fabricate and thus frequently substituted StuGs (or other AFVs) for the tanks that were simply not available. I wasn't aware that the FBB was impacted, but it was hastily organized and as a 2nd wave unit might have been less prioritized.

FYI, the FBB was always shown as an armor unit not only in the old SSG Ardennes game but the even older Avalon Hill physical board games of the 1980s (and 1960s, of which my uncle had - the first board game I ever saw), called the Führer Escort Brigade in those very old games. It was the most powerful regiment/brigade in that old game, hard for a curious young boy (me) to miss, and for me to forget later. That guaranteed that I would check it in the present and catch the omission.

Speaking of tank parks, I now turn to XLVII Panzer Korps, and note that CMH Green Book (Hugh Cole) claims the following for 2nd Panzer Division (see Page 178 ): "On the eve of commitment the two tank battalions were about full strength, with 27 Mark IV’s, 58 Panthers, and 48 armored assault guns in the division tank parks." Meanwhile, Panzer Lehr had (again see p. 178): ..."the panzer regiment had ready only one of its two battalions (with 27 Mark IV’s and 30 Panthers)." I find this last reference very suspect - the Mark IV and Panther battalions in the Panzer Regiments were almost always fully separated, not combined organizationally as described. The CMH Ardennes volume also claims (again on p.178) that the Lehr panzer grenadier regiments were very short of manpower, which I have not seen claimed anywhere else that I can recall.

By contrast, I note that in the game, 2nd Panzer has 28 Panther tanks in the battalion plus another 16 in the four pre-existing KGs (a total of 44 in all), while Panzer Lehr has 39 Panthers in the battalion plus another 12 in the three KGs (51 in all), almost as if one full company of Panthers were transferred to Panzer Lehr from 2nd Panzer. I suspect you used more reliable German sources for those OOBs - the CMH Green Book is a great history, especially on the American side, but I'm not sure about the reliability of all of its German OOB numbers. Either way, I like what you did much better. It's hard to believe that 2nd Panzer would have received more Panthers than the SS Panzer Divisions (the Schwerpunkt of the German offensive), which is what the Green Book indirectly claims.


Cheers!

John

[nikdav]

Hi John !
Always interested in historical questions.
Understanding the real oob of many German units is a very hard work.
For the FBB there are sources that list PzIV and StuG IV or Jagdpz IV 70/A or StuG III.
The commander Otto Remer in his after war relation tell of perhaps 100 armored vehicles:

FBB2.jpg (222.6 KiB) Viewed 1882 times

[nikdav]

In 1990 the US Army compiled the ACSDB (Ardennes Campaign Simulation Data Base) with all known sources.

Ardennesdbase 2.jpg (145.04 KiB) Viewed 1879 times

[nikdav]

Otto Remer tells about dozens of vehicles off road damaged and abandoned while moving from rear area due to inexperienced drivers ! Many were recovered later and so in late january 45 the FBB still had nearly 40 Tanks/StuG.

A very good source, Jentz (Panzer Truppen vol.2): 24 Pz.IV + 43 Jagdpz IV 70/A + 8 flakpz IV (mid december 44)

FBB jentz.jpg (55.84 KiB) Viewed 1873 times

[nikdav]

and redeployed on the eastern front directly from Ardennes.

FBB ost jentz.jpg (42.94 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

[JohnO36]

Hi Davide,

Great discussion and sources, thank you. It turns out that the Remer reference is online in the US 7th Armored Division Document Repository at:

https://www.7tharmddiv.org/docrep/M-FBB-B592-B838.doc

I am going to attempt to re-paste the pages you referenced from the online Word document – the screenshots from the Word document are easier to read (better contrast) than from the original book – my old eyes need all the help they can get.

I agree that the OOB - T/O&E data conflicts from source to source, especially late WW2 German sources. In the end, we can only take our best guess, which I know you did.

Thanks also for the great input on the issues with heavy vehicles sliding off roads in the hills of the Eifel and Ardennes – that is referenced in many places. I did not know that the FBB lost so many vehicles in the move to the front in December – very interesting indeed. The Germans were very short on experienced heavy vehicle (and AFV) drivers near the end of the war – the losses were becoming unsupportable and devastating.

Do you have any comments on the 2nd Panzer Division and Panzer Lehr Division T/O&Es for the Panzer regiments that I listed in my previous post? I know that it is a similar story to that of the FBB, FGB, 150Pz Bd, etc…

Remer_P3.jpg (207.04 KiB) Viewed 1861 times

Remer_P4.jpg (224.95 KiB) Viewed 1861 times

[nikdav]

Yes, great discussion and great link the 7th Armored site.

For all Panzer units the best reliable source is always Jentz (Panzertruppen) but the problem is that we never know how many tanks were ready and how many in short or long term repair.
I won't consider the inesperienced drivers accidents, but is a very underrated problem. Nearly 90% young German soldier had never driven a car so many US POW were forced to drive captured trucks and Jeeps.

Lehr_2PzD.jpg (44.52 KiB) Viewed 1845 times

[JohnO36]

Davide,

Thanks for the additional reply - I have enjoyed our discussion.

Please post again once you have had a chance to perform the updates on the FBB for the Wacht am Rhein and Plan Martin scenarios. Once that update is on Steam, I plan to do the beta update.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

John

[nikdav]

Hi John,
FBB order of battle fixed with the 1.07.01 beta.

Thanks you for finding the issue.

Davide

[JohnO36]

Hi Davide,

I hadn't checked in for a while. I see you posted some time back. Thank you for letting me know that Version 1.0.7.1 is available! I will be downloading it soon.

Best Regards,

John

[JohnO36]

Hi Davide,
Just a quick comparison of the AFV strengths between Versions 1.06 and 1.07.1 for the FBB. Please note that I am not counting Flak support vehicles such as the Wirbelwind, Ostwinds, or the Sdkfz 7.

Version 1.06:
StuG Abteilung 200: 34 StuG III (G), and 9 StuH 42, for a total of 43 AFVs for the StuG Abteilung and the full FB Brigade.

Version 1.07.1:
StuG Abteilung 200: 26 StuG III (G), and 6 StuH 42, for a total of 32 AFVs for the StuG Abteilung.
FBB Panzer Bataillon: 27 JagdPz IV L70, and 21 Pzkw IV (J) L48, for a total of 48 AFVs for the FBB Panzer Bataillon.

The AFV total for the full FB Brigade in the updated Version 1.07.1 is 80 AFVs, which is in exact agreement with sources we discussed previously in this thread. I really like the new AFV distribution - it is Excellent! Great job, Davide!

Cheers,

John O.

[nikdav]

Credit to you for your feedback.

Thanks again !

Davide

[TK2282]

According to Dugdale's information the FBB had the following armour on 16th December 1944:

I.Panzer Brigade FBB
HQ 3x Pz IV
1Kp 13x Pz IV
2Kp 12x Pz IV
3Kp 10x Pz IV
4Kp 17x Pz IV + 10x StuG III

II.Panzer Brigade FBB
HQ 1x StuG III
1Kp 10x StuG III
2Kp 10x StuG III
3Kp 10x StuG III

38x Pz IV were lang with the remainder being short barrelled (?)
14x StuG III were StuH42
Included 4x Mobelwagen, 4x Wirbelwind and 4x BergePz III

[nikdav]

Thanks for the input, i don't had Dugdale among my sources.