Bacon Mod + RetreatUE + Das Chrome

[RogerBacon]

ORIGINAL: Das123

Just uploaded version 1.04 in the OP

The only change this time was to make the gas extractors about 30% more productive...

The way you changed it (increasing value 1 ) only means you will need FEWER extractors to reach the extraction rate cap of 40 units per time frame. To actually increase production rate you need to enter a value for value 2 (unused in vanilla DWU). Put it double of what you entered for value 1 if you want to maintain the same DWU idea that 2 extractors per station is optimal (which is what the design templates use unless you changed them).

Here are the values I use from the research.txt
PROJECT ;468, Enhanced Gas Extraction, 2, 28, 1, 6, 0, 2.8,
COMPONENT IMPROVEMENTS ;60, 2, 40, 80, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
PARENTS ;119, N

PROJECT ;469, Improved Gas Extraction, 4, 28, 1, 6, 0, 8.0,
COMPONENT IMPROVEMENTS ;60, 4, 50, 100, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
PARENTS ;468, N

PROJECT ;470, Advanced Gas Extraction, 6, 28, 1, 6, 0, 14.7,
COMPONENT IMPROVEMENTS ;60, 6, 60, 120, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
PARENTS ;469, N

PROJECT ;471, Optimized Gas Extraction, 7, 28, 1, 6, 0, 18.5,
COMPONENT IMPROVEMENTS ;60, 7, 75, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
PARENTS ;470, N

[DasTactic]

Thanks Roger. In the AI Improvement Mod it changed the base designs of the gas mining stations to have 3 extractors so I guess I triple the extraction rate for the extraction cap area.

In the tests I've done the boost I've given it is working well so what is happening with the extraction cap set to zero (like in the vanilla)?

Reverse engineering your Bacon World mod, the extraction cap on the base components hasn't been set. Should these also be done? Also, the mining extractor and luxury extractor have been set to a factor of 4 but the vanilla design templates have these at 2 units and 1 unit respectively. In the AI Improvement Mod these are set to 3 and 2.

[RogerBacon]

ORIGINAL: Das123

Thanks Roger. In the AI Improvement Mod it changed the base designs of the gas mining stations to have 3 extractors so I guess I triple the extraction rate for the extraction cap area.

In the tests I've done the boost I've given it is working well so what is happening with the extraction cap set to zero (like in the vanilla)?

Reverse engineering your Bacon World mod, the extraction cap on the base components hasn't been set. Should these also be done? Also, the mining extractor and luxury extractor have been set to a factor of 4 but the vanilla design templates have these at 2 units and 1 unit respectively. In the AI Improvement Mod these are set to 3 and 2.

If the extraction cap is set to zero, such as in vanilla or in the base level components in the Bacon mod, the values of 12, 12, and 40 are used. Those are the vanilla DWU resource extraction caps.

While looking into this I noticed a poor decision on my part. It looks like I hard-coded the search strings to determine the highest component improvement researched for the new mining cap. It is looking for compoents that contain the following strings:
"Mining Engine"
"Luxury Resource Extractor"
"Gas Extractor"

I'll change that in the next version.

[DasTactic]

The vanilla game is using a 4x factor for mining and luxury mining. Would you recommend using the 4x factor in mods as well? The design templates only have 2 mining extractors and 1 luxury extractor in the vanilla game.

[RogerBacon]

ORIGINAL: Das123

The vanilla game is using a 4x factor for mining and luxury mining. Would you recommend using the 4x factor in mods as well? The design templates only have 2 mining extractors and 1 luxury extractor in the vanilla game.

Well, I'm not sure my vanilla game components.txt is 100% vanilla but in mine I have the mining engine generating 3 mining points and the gas extractor generating 20. That means that it takes 4 mining engine to max out resource collection. Later technology reduces this to three mining engines because they are worth 4 points each. You can set it to whatever you want. Just be sure the ship templates take that in to account so the AI doesn't get screwed. Remember with the Bacon Mod you can dynamically rreload ship templates during the game with the !loadtemplates command. So, you can update any game in progress if you make template changes.

[Pocus]

Das, as you seem to be the one handling some update -- or at least syntax fixing -- on UE, do you know what was done to remove maintenance from troops for the AIs? Because I don't see how it is possible that minor empires support 104 (!) troops on their homeworld. It means you need to nuke them to death before invading.

[DasTactic]

ORIGINAL: Pocus

Das, as you seem to be the one handling some update -- or at least syntax fixing -- on UE, do you know what was done to remove maintenance from troops for the AIs? Because I don't see how it is possible that minor empires support 104 (!) troops on their homeworld. It means you need to nuke them to death before invading.

The only area I'm aware of (and this would affect AI and players) is that the /races/<name>.txt files have a TroopMaintenanceSavings command. Eg the Mortalens have:

'Troop Maintenance Savings: percentage rate of savings on maintenance costs for troops
TroopMaintenanceSavings ;25

The amount of troops I think is dictated by the Bacon Mod settings:
// Troop target level for independent colonies. Vanilla DW is 2, making independents too easy to conquer
TroopGarrisonMinimumPerColony=40

Doesn't really answer your question but perhaps Roger tweaked something inside the Bacon Mod to allow it to be affordable. I'm thinking I'll be tweaking this down somewhat to perhaps 10 or so.

[RogerBacon]

ORIGINAL: Das123


The amount of troops I think is dictated by the Bacon Mod settings:
// Troop target level for independent colonies. Vanilla DW is 2, making independents too easy to conquer
TroopGarrisonMinimumPerColony=40

Doesn't really answer your question but perhaps Roger tweaked something inside the Bacon Mod to allow it to be affordable. I'm thinking I'll be tweaking this down somewhat to perhaps 10 or so.

That only affects the independent empires, not minor real empires. The independents have unlimited money in the game so I didn't have to do anything to enable them to support the cost of many troops.
The reason I play with 40 is because each independent planet is its own capital and I wanted to make taking one as hard as taking a capital. Also the benefits are easily worth it. You can skip almost all colonization tech by capturing independent planets and then using the fact that those races are 'native' to the various planet types to create colony ships. Before I made the change I think it had been more than I year since I ever researched any sort of colonization tech.

[Pocus]

Indeed, that's minor (real) empires, not independent. They manage to maintain like 80 infantry on their HW it seems.

Unrelated, the Caslon problem is very much widespread, even for AIs. I manage to get away with it in my new game with judicious use of state owned freighters, but I have currently in sight a ragtag fleet from my neighbor (25 or so explorers, freighters and passengers ships), all heading toward one of my caslon refinery.

In absence of an epiphany in knowing what is going on with the civilian sector (caslon transport don't have enough priority, and they transport silly things over vast distances), I suggest a pragmatic approach: increase drastically (like x4) the fuel to energy conversion efficiency of reactors. Meaning that caslon (and others fuels) will be sucked up much less... I'm going to see if DW applies changes to data dynamically and test that myself.

[DasTactic]

ORIGINAL: Pocus

Indeed, that's minor (real) empires, not independent. They manage to maintain like 80 infantry on their HW it seems.

Unrelated, the Caslon problem is very much widespread, even for AIs. I manage to get away with it in my new game with judicious use of state owned freighters, but I have currently in sight a ragtag fleet from my neighbor (25 or so explorers, freighters and passengers ships), all heading toward one of my caslon refinery.

In absence of an epiphany in knowing what is going on with the civilian sector (caslon transport don't have enough priority, and they transport silly things over vast distances), I suggest a pragmatic approach: increase drastically (like x4) the fuel to energy conversion efficiency of reactors. Meaning that caslon (and others fuels) will be sucked up much less... I'm going to see if DW applies changes to data dynamically and test that myself.

In my current game with the tweaked gas mining stations, it is helping a lot. There are still shortages but they correct themselves reasonably quickly with the extra mining capabilities. Also, the game is heavily wanting large freighters but they are a large part of the problem because of the gravity wells. If civilian ships could leave the gravity well much sooner than military ships that would help enormously. I'm not building any large freighters but instead just pumping out small freighters. I guess the AI is investing in the large freighters.

@Roger, what would be the possibilities of your mod looking for a percentage factor for gravity wells that could be placed in the design files. Eg, under /designTemplates/<faction>/largefreighter.txt a new line could be added:
GravityWellEffectPercent ;50
that your mod would read and multiply the percentage to the calculation for Gravity Wells. That way modders could tweak the impact of the gravity well on different ship classes across each faction. Would free up the private sector a lot.

I don't think the fuel efficiency is the answer as it would take away a large portion of the strategy in the game - namely managing the logistics of distant invasions. But that can be changed, if you wanted to, in value 2 of the components.txt file and research.txt file...

Main Thruster: Value1=maximum thrust, Value2=energy usage per second at maximum thrust, Value3=cruise thrust, Value4=energy usage per second at cruise thrust, Value5-7 unused
Hyper Drive: Value1=top speed, Value2=energy usage per second, Value3=typical jump initiation time in seconds, Value4=gravwell dividend divided by..., Value5=gravwell divisor, Value6-7 unused

[RogerBacon]

ORIGINAL: Pocus

Indeed, that's minor (real) empires, not independent. They manage to maintain like 80 infantry on their HW it seems.

Unrelated, the Caslon problem is very much widespread, even for AIs. I manage to get away with it in my new game with judicious use of state owned freighters, but I have currently in sight a ragtag fleet from my neighbor (25 or so explorers, freighters and passengers ships), all heading toward one of my caslon refinery.

In absence of an epiphany in knowing what is going on with the civilian sector (caslon transport don't have enough priority, and they transport silly things over vast distances), I suggest a pragmatic approach: increase drastically (like x4) the fuel to energy conversion efficiency of reactors. Meaning that caslon (and others fuels) will be sucked up much less... I'm going to see if DW applies changes to data dynamically and test that myself.

In my games usually the AI empires have less troops at their homeworlds than the independents (usually around 25-40).

If you think ships are spending too much fuel inside of gravity wells, don't forget that you have this setting in the BaconSettings.txt file:

// If useStarGravityWells is enabled ships will spend more time at sublight speed so they need to burn less fuel
// Sublight fuel burn will be divided by this number
sublightFuelBurnDivisor=3

Bear in mind that this number is an int so if you set it too high fuel burn will end up being zero. Example: A ship with 10 engines which each have a cruise fuel burn of 2 has a final fuel burn of 20 units per time period. This is then divided by the value above (3 in this case). If you entered a value higher than 10 you would have fuel burn of 1 and a value higher than 20 would use no fuel in this example.

[sotthata]

It'll be interesting to me if Das sees the pockets of space where out-of-fuel ships congregate as my Bacon-fueled play-throughs are wont to do.

[DasTactic]

Version 1.06 uploaded to OP

This version catches up with the changes in Bacon Mod 1.70 and 1.71. Namely, the warp components now have settings to slowly decrease the gravity well effects as you research up the tree. Also is a file called Das_BaconSettings 1.71.txt with the settings I'm using. Best to compare this to the actual BaconSettings.txt file and make your own changes.

[RogerBacon]

Hi Das et al,

Looking through your settings file I saws a section that was missing. It turns out I didn't included it in the published BaconSettings.txt in the Bacon mod. I'll be sure to add it in the next version. In the meantime everyone can just add he following section. I put it after the researchperlab but it can go anywhere.

// These values determine how much scientific data a science ship will receive for discovering a resource or a ruins that contains a discovery. Ruins that contain nothing will give no data.
scientificDataForResourceSurvey=3
scientificDataForRuins=90

With out this entry the games is using the default values of 3 and 30.

[Pocus]

Das, any possibility to provide a more ready-to-play solution, i.e pre-merged files from Bacon, UE, Retreat and your? That's not like I can't do it myself, but your mod-mod (mod?) is anyway bound to use all the others mods anyway... Unless Roger don't want you to integrate his own version into your. Or is it the upload size the issue, because of UE?

Another way, along similar lines would be that you propose an archive (that won't change often) with UE graphics and your, and then you update a data mod-mod with the rest. This way you get rid of the batch file and have already there all data files merged and up to date.

Just saying, I can understand you each want to keep things separate.

[DasTactic]

ORIGINAL: Pocus

Das, any possibility to provide a more ready-to-play solution, i.e pre-merged files from Bacon, UE, Retreat and your? That's not like I can't do it myself, but your mod-mod (mod?) is anyway bound to use all the others mods anyway... Unless Roger don't want you to integrate his own version into your. Or is it the upload size the issue, because of UE?

Another way, along similar lines would be that you propose an archive (that won't change often) with UE graphics and your, and then you update a data mod-mod with the rest. This way you get rid of the batch file and have already there all data files merged and up to date.

Just saying, I can understand you each want to keep things separate.

My main concern is that I'm only doing this to record a YouTube series and that I most likely won't be very active or support future changes from the Bacon Mod after I finish with that recording. I also hadn't anticipated the number of changes required (it was only going to be a graphic overhaul with minor changes to the fighters to make that compatible). If anyone else wants to run with it I'd be happy with that.

[Pocus]

I understand. I can't guarantee that either, even if DW has some redeeming quality over Stellaris. Probably I'll switch back to Aurora++ when it is out, but it can be sometime.

[nicodede62]

Hello here,

I have found a bug with the Yl'ta race I think. If I understand, you remove 3 txt file with the .bat, but in a game with humans, the Y'lta race are in the galaxy. When i click on them (for diplomacy), my game crash without any message.

[DasTactic]

ORIGINAL: nicodede62

Hello here,

I have found a bug with the Yl'ta race I think. If I understand, you remove 3 txt file with the .bat, but in a game with humans, the Y'lta race are in the galaxy. When i click on them (for diplomacy), my game crash without any message.

Do you remember if it was the first time you spoke with them?
And is this happening consistently?
And can you check if it happens if you select a different race?
And finally, did you start the game with this version or did you upgrade during a game?

I was getting consistent crashes when I had the Bacon Mod setting 'tradeEverything=true' (the default) until I changed this to 'tradeEverything=false'. Then diplomacy became much more stable.

The only other thing I think you can check is that you have the following files (but I'm not sure how they would impact diplomacy):
\Customization\RetreatUE Bacon\dialog\yl'ta.txt
\Customization\RetreatUE Bacon\races\yl'ta.txt
\Customization\RetreatUE Bacon\Policy\Yl'ta.txt

Another thing you could try is to remove \Customization\RetreatUE Bacon\dialog\yl'ta.txt and let the game choose default dialog.

Hope these help and I hope it works.

[nicodede62]

I check your solutions if I have time today, but if you needed, I upload the save game 10 mn before I encouter them.
https://files.fm/u/k74c2yc8


Edit:

Also, for response at your first question.
My game crash when I trade a Free mutual defense pact with a human race and I exchange map, I discover the yt'la and crash when I see them on the map.
The second, I ignore the mutual pact with human but I just exchange map, I see the yl'ta and click on their mother system, crash...
And last question, it's a fresh install (vanilla + mod) after looking your last let's play ! [:)][:)][:)]