Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21

User avatar
M60A3TTS
Posts: 4759
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by M60A3TTS »

@HLYA: I've largely been on sabatical, so stop moping.

One would find it hard to criticize your defense of Leningrad, aided in no small part by Brian's bewildering decision to drive his panzerwaffe into the backwoods of Torzhok in 1941, effectively killing any chance of taking Leningrad or Moscow that year.

As to your northern position, I would question sacrificing guards cavalry corps in that pocket, although I am well aware that you and I place a differing value on their importance. What I have found is that guards cavalry are in a better position during inclement weather and moving away from a functioning railhead to advance and engage in combat later in the war (43-45). Part of that is due to the cost of deliberate attacks by cavalry remaining at 6 vs. 16 for the armor.

Why do you have three units in each hex along the Finnish No Attack Line? That means once you are squeezed to 3 units a hex, your defenders will rout or surrender that much sooner.

You seem a little too ready to write off Leningrad. You know that you don't need those ports like you used to as airhead supply is available now. Personally, I would already have corp-ed the guards rifle divisions along the Neva and be dug in for a long siege. Two armies, airbases on two hexes and a rifle brigade on each of the four hexes along the Finnish line will give you what you need to make the Axis player have to really work at digging you out.

Image
User avatar
John B.
Posts: 3985
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:45 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by John B. »

@HYLA, I've never played the game so I have no value to add. I've sold my soul to WiTPAE and don't have time for this one, but I enjoy reading the AARs (yours included) very much.
John Barr
User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

@HLYA: I've largely been on sabatical, so stop moping.

Thank you for a reply M60. Welcome back!! I will now put on my happy face :-)
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

One would find it hard to criticize your defense of Leningrad, aided in no small part by Brian's bewildering decision to drive his panzerwaffe into the backwoods of Torzhok in 1941, effectively killing any chance of taking Leningrad or Moscow that year.

As to your northern position, I would question sacrificing guards cavalry corps in that pocket, although I am well aware that you and I place a differing value on their importance. What I have found is that guards cavalry are in a better position during inclement weather and moving away from a functioning railhead to advance and engage in combat later in the war (43-45). Part of that is due to the cost of deliberate attacks by cavalry remaining at 6 vs. 16 for the armor.

Yes, I don't put high value on Cavalry in general. They are great for what you mentioned above and I have a nice cadre of other Cav Corps(12 more Corps). But I don't mind losing what I have there for the delay in and around Leningrad. Once lost they should be back in shape by the end of the year.

Thus Guard Cavalry made it look even better enticement for Leningrad to be encircled. I cared not if the Germans direct attacked or cut off the ports. What I do hope at a minimum is for the Germans to take to 2nd week of July to eliminate Leningrad. If the 3 PZ Corps(estimation from the "ctrl + 3" function, since I really don't do much recon now since I am sure of my lines) are held here to the end of June at a minimum then that will meet my minimum expectation.
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Why do you have three units in each hex along the Finnish No Attack Line? That means once you are squeezed to 3 units a hex, your defenders will rout or surrender that much sooner.
Very good question indeed. It is multi faceted.

1st, actually it is ALL hexes are stacked 3 high in Leningrad. With all the hexes in and around Leningrad filled with units any attack by the Germans would route the Soviet unit to the east instead of into Leningrad proper. Thus freeing them from the pot if you will. Any unit hungry German would not want to attack to lose a "juicy" morsel ;-) Since I had the front line stacked with large defense values and after Brians first attack sending the first set of 3 units far to the east it looks like he made the decision to cut off Leningrad proper. He wanted to force surrender all the units I guess. If he pursued a direct frontal assault all of those Guard units and units in general would 100% route to the east. So I set it up to go either way. With few towns in the north those units route way to the East on to a rail hex normally. Once they rally they are ready to go south

2nd, Many of those units in the rear were brigades set at 70% and division set at 20% TOE along with some AT Brigades set at 20%. If Brian wanted to cut off the ports these units can do one of two things. They can be ported out quickly being under 300 capacity OR they can be used to bring a front line division back up to full strength. Matter fact all units that are killed I use as replacement brigades/Divisions to my other Divisions on the map. It is a nifty replacement system once set up correctly. Many of these 20% TOE replacement divisions are nearing 40 experience so not much of an experience hit either :)

This replacement system is an excellent way to keep an offense going. You really only have to worry about the fatigue since you replace back to full every turn. I now have division at 20%, 30%, and 40% TOE in key areas of attacks. I do the same thing for my Armor Corps. Every Turn they are full strength.

Not to mention this is how you can get your Armor Corps high in Experience pretty quickly. Yes, when you convert 3 armor brigades into an Armor Corps your experience goes through the floor. Now if you take the corps and add in your top experienced armor brigades you start to quickly bring that experience up. I guess I should stop giving out too much information :(

3rd, There was an opportunity to use the 6 Cav Corps to try and do an offense towards Finland. Finlands border with Leningrad was only guarded by Regiments. Instead I decided to use them just to cause loses to the Germans. I have pretty much shunned attacking any other nationality besides the Germans until turn 53. (I should have tried Finland, that would have been interesting to say the least. But kind of defeated my purpose of inflicting loses on Germans)
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

You seem a little too ready to write off Leningrad. You know that you don't need those ports like you used to as airhead supply is available now. Personally, I would already have corp-ed the guards rifle divisions along the Neva and be dug in for a long siege. Two armies, airbases on two hexes and a rifle brigade on each of the four hexes along the Finnish line will give you what you need to make the Axis player have to really work at digging you out.

Haven't written it off. Just my expectation is Panzers till the end of June and most Infantry to Mid July to be kept in Area. Anything beyond that I am ESTACTIC. I have been up in the air about making a Corps in Leningrad. At this stage of the game I feel it is better used around Moscow and or Stalino. I really debated about Corp'ing up the whole defense of defending the ports. But I didn't and may be forced to pay the price here in a little bit. Many of my resources now are tied up in the Center and South

German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

HardLuckYetAgain

If the 3 PZ Corps(estimation from the "ctrl + 3" function, since I really don't do much recon now since I am sure of my lines) are held here to the end of June at a minimum then that will meet my minimum expectation.

Let me clarify, I don't do much if any Recon unless I am going on the attack or to shoot down a few more German planes at the end of the turn. I will use recon to see if German fighters will fly to a hex. This way I will either send fighter escort or no escort (sometimes I have been burned on this :( Other than that once I have a line I am confident in I don't recon.
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist


Of course that does not matter if you can enforce a quick decision in the South with pockets.

I don't have a pocket. I do have a hole in his line with depth that should force units in his attacking wedge to turn around and deal with. Plus my units cut his only supplying rail line to that attacking wedge so supply has to travel a bit further.
ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

How satisfied are you with your "kill the AFV" focus in this game so far?

You are talking about my employment of attacking his PZ Divisions to cause loses to his tank force? I did that in the Winter to great effect. I have done the same thing recently but with not so great a result.
ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Glad you have joined the U2VS fan club.
Image

The way I have them set up they are doing excellent KIA's 30-50 per run on the experienced group. Not so much on the inexperienced group :( Like 0

How is the state re the AAR-server?

They are not AAR's. It is just folders with every one of my WITE games that I took snap shots of through the years. I was going to share out my BrianG game folder from that for those that wanted to see it. But maybe I will go ahead and continue here instead.

Regards
EvK




German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: John B.

@HYLA, I've never played the game so I have no value to add. I've sold my soul to WiTPAE and don't have time for this one, but I enjoy reading the AARs (yours included) very much.

Thank you John B. I almost pulled the trigger on WiTPAE last week myself. But in the end I would have zero time to immerse myself in the game in my current schedule :(
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
M60A3TTS
Posts: 4759
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by M60A3TTS »

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Glad you have joined the U2VS fan club.
Image



Regards
EvK




You may consider yourself under arrest, Comrade General Armii. You were going to a position in the Far East, but now it's a show trial and twenty years hard labor at a rehabilitation camp.
User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Glad you have joined the U2VS fan club.
Image



Regards
EvK




You may consider yourself under arrest, Comrade General Armii. You were going to a position in the Far East, but now it's a show trial and twenty years hard labor at a rehabilitation camp.

I know I know, I am guilty. Take me away please. I have 80 squadrons of U-2VS & they are causing some pretty nice loses to the Germans the way that I have them set up. I have 8 squadrons of Hurricane SHAP Fighter Bombers I have been happy with too. I am increasing that to 16 over the next couple of turns. I mean I really have so many fighters why not, not to mention LA-5's coming online soon and German fighter planes are becoming like hens teeth.

This is my current fighters on hand. Plus I can't kill off the darn U-2VS quick enough. I send them against the Panzers most of the time to be honest. I don't care if the AA shoots down 5-20 of them at a time ;-) My IL-2's go against the Infantry.

Image
Attachments
InkedFight..avail_LI.jpg
InkedFight..avail_LI.jpg (283.77 KiB) Viewed 484 times
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

My 4,033 fighters for current turn 53 Fighter Experience = mid 70's to 80. With Morale from 70-89 on majority. Still no guard fighters

Image
Attachments
Fighterexp2.jpg
Fighterexp2.jpg (270.89 KiB) Viewed 484 times
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
M60A3TTS
Posts: 4759
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by M60A3TTS »

If you are trying to conserve IL-2s by leaving the panzers with their AA compliment to the U-2s, my question is why? The IL2M3 alone will have a total production run of something like thirty thousand. You can't run out of them unless you lose the factories early on. The only thing that you really save are trucks. You noted you want like 140-160 IL-2 regiments. You can in fact go higher than that, but again, it will eat more trucks than a U-2VS. That is the only advantage I can see. And as another option you could use level bombers which don't take as many losses against panzers.
User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

If you are trying to conserve IL-2s by leaving the panzers with their AA compliment to the U-2s, my question is why? The IL2M3 alone will have a total production run of something like thirty thousand. You can't run out of them unless you lose the factories early on. The only thing that you really save are trucks. You noted you want like 140-160 IL-2 regiments. You can in fact go higher than that, but again, it will eat more trucks than a U-2VS. That is the only advantage I can see. And as another option you could use level bombers which don't take as many losses against panzers.

It is a numbers game at the moment. That is all there is to it. I have a crazy amount of U-2s and decided to use them. Which hasn't been too bad. Once I have sufficient reserves of Il-2s and the current Il-2's are trained the U-2's will go away. Which will be soon. I am currently running 122 squadrons of Bombers but that will dwindle down over the next few months as more Il-2 squadrons come online. But yes 160 was my goal for 42 but will be way more than that. My Il-2s factories are finally almost full production.
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
56ajax
Posts: 2225
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:43 am
Location: Cairns, Australia

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by 56ajax »

Hyla, I enjoy reading your AARs very much.

I think it was you that mentioned a work around for the Soviets slow experience gain, which would be detailed in and AAR??? Please?

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre aérienne
User avatar
Dinglir
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:35 pm

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by Dinglir »

I have made the decision to not post much on your AAR, as I have been giving out a few thoughts on BrianG's version. I don't want to come across as an armchair general who reads one AAR in order to move to the other to give some "insights", and then return to the first one.

That being said, I have had much the same thoughts on stopping to write my AAR's.

I began writing AAR's in the hope that they could spark some discussions on the game, and that I could actually learn something from this. Instead it seems I often post four AAR's or more in a row with no meaningfull feedback. There are no questions forcing me to look at my strategy from another perspective, there are no comments presenting me with a perspective other than my own and there is generally no comments at all. All in all, I probably spend an hour or two on every AAR and learn absolutely nothing in return. IT is a very valid question to ask if it is simply not just a waste of time to write them.
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
1st, actually it is ALL hexes are stacked 3 high in Leningrad. With all the hexes in and around Leningrad filled with units any attack by the Germans would route the Soviet unit to the east instead of into Leningrad proper. Thus freeing them from the pot if you will. Any unit hungry German would not want to attack to lose a "juicy" morsel ;-) Since I had the front line stacked with large defense values and after Brians first attack sending the first set of 3 units far to the east it looks like he made the decision to cut off Leningrad proper. He wanted to force surrender all the units I guess. If he pursued a direct frontal assault all of those Guard units and units in general would 100% route to the east. So I set it up to go either way. With few towns in the north those units route way to the East on to a rail hex normally. Once they rally they are ready to go south

Not sure I like this approach. Retreat casualties are increased for routing over long distances, and losing 50% of two divisions is pretty much the same as losing one whole division in my view. What sort of rout losses do you take in the north? Yes, I relaize that the remains will fill up faster and train back to combat level quicker when the unit is retained, but you do have two units to retrain rather than one, so the total amount of time lost might not be very different.
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
2nd, Many of those units in the rear were brigades set at 70% and division set at 20% TOE along with some AT Brigades set at 20%. If Brian wanted to cut off the ports these units can do one of two things. They can be ported out quickly being under 300 capacity OR they can be used to bring a front line division back up to full strength. Matter fact all units that are killed I use as replacement brigades/Divisions to my other Divisions on the map. It is a nifty replacement system once set up correctly. Many of these 20% TOE replacement divisions are nearing 40 experience so not much of an experience hit either :)

This replacement system is an excellent way to keep an offense going. You really only have to worry about the fatigue since you replace back to full every turn. I now have division at 20%, 30%, and 40% TOE in key areas of attacks. I do the same thing for my Armor Corps. Every Turn they are full strength.

Not to mention this is how you can get your Armor Corps high in Experience pretty quickly. Yes, when you convert 3 armor brigades into an Armor Corps your experience goes through the floor. Now if you take the corps and add in your top experienced armor brigades you start to quickly bring that experience up. I guess I should stop giving out too much information :(

Smart. I haven't thought of that. It does seem rather "gamey" however. Merging formations like this should certainly spend all MP on the merged divisions and require that no MP was spent prior to the merging. The Germans were able to form Kampfgruppen at a moments notice, but not the Soviets.

As for giving out information, you and I seem to look at this game from two different perspectives. If all you want t do is to win, by all means hoard your tips and tricks and use them over and over again. If you want to improve your own gameplay, share your insights and seek out the challenge of having to continously improve to stayy on top.
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
3rd, There was an opportunity to use the 6 Cav Corps to try and do an offense towards Finland. Finlands border with Leningrad was only guarded by Regiments. Instead I decided to use them just to cause loses to the Germans. I have pretty much shunned attacking any other nationality besides the Germans until turn 53. (I should have tried Finland, that would have been interesting to say the least. But kind of defeated my purpose of inflicting loses on Germans)

Bear in mind that once Leningrad falls the Finns will be out of the POW camp and back in the game. If nothing else, they can replace German units on the northernmost stretch of the front and thus help strengthening the Wehrmacht. With the risk of losing Leningrad, I believe you have to reevaluate the strategic importance of the Finns.

Same thing with the other Axis Minors. I tend not to seperate them to much from the Germans, as they can raplace German units on the frontline. The better shape they are in, the better a job they can do.

Incidentally, what are your current success criteria for this game?

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

As for giving out information, you and I seem to look at this game from two different perspectives. If all you want t do is to win, by all means hoard your tips and tricks and use them over and over again. If you want to improve your own gameplay, share your insights and seek out the challenge of having to continously improve to stayy on top.

Before I head out to work I wanted to touch base on just this little snippet. I believe we are on the same page. I know that I have given to this community more information or tricks or just brought to the forefront many items.

1. The air campaign is important part of the game. Up to the time I started posting the wisdom was that Air was not necessary to win the game
2. Super Lvov pocket mainstreamed. I did not invent it, but I perfected it.
3. Being able to take Moscow consistently (and Leningrad by default) Before the conventional wisdom was Moscow could be defended. I was ridiculed by Pelton and Michael T as a pipe dream move)
4. Retreat priorities
5. The effects of fatigue
6. AA is not static and is a movable object
7. Opening defense Strat towards Leningrad for the Soviets
8. Destruction of the German Air arm as a strat

By all means this is not an exhaustive list, I am just out of time to post and need to drive to work. What I am trying to say is that I have helped more than you have realized. Just too many tips at once is a bad thing. If I wanted to keep them to my self I would have never posted any at all.



German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
EwaldvonKleist
Posts: 2388
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:58 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by EwaldvonKleist »

I believe some of the points can be challenged. Note I do not want to imply ill will on your side as there are very many war in the East posts on the internet. I have read many old WitE posts (more than I am proud of) so I think I will chime in.
Before I head out to work I wanted to touch base on just this little snippet. I believe we are on the same page. I know that I have given to this community more information or tricks or just brought to the forefront many items.

1. The air campaign is important part of the game. Up to the time I started posting the wisdom was that Air was not necessary to win the game
2. Super Lvov pocket mainstreamed. I did not invent it, but I perfected it.
3. Being able to take Moscow consistently (and Leningrad by default) Before the conventional wisdom was Moscow could be defended. I was ridiculed by Pelton and Michael T as a pipe dream move)
4. Retreat priorities
5. The effects of fatigue
6. AA is not static and is a movable object
7. Opening defense Strat towards Leningrad for the Soviets
8. Destruction of the German Air arm as a strat

By all means this is not an exhaustive list, I am just out of time to post and need to drive to work. What I am trying to say is that I have helped more than you have realized. Just too many tips at once is a bad thing. If I wanted to keep them to my self I would have never posted any at all.



1. When was this considered to be the case? Just one example of many: fb.asp?m=4138183 or even older in chaos45 AAR: tm.asp?m=3871507&mpage=4&key=
2. You were the first Super Lvov player to draw entire 2nd PG South. Makes super Lvov less messy, but you need to sacrify some results in the centre.
Not a reply to you as it was not your point but still interesting, I earliest super Lvov I know is from MichaelT, although I think there was not yet the movement penalty to regiments in June 1941: tm.asp?m=3075748
3. I am surprised MichaelT said this as in the AARs one can see both use of PG 4 for the T3-5 offensive in the center and more weigh on Moscow than for example in Peltons AARs. Of course I do not know every post, though "ridiculed" is a pretty strong word.
4. True I think, but only if you exclude German wargamer forums, but of course it is a bit unfair to count them as only a small minority speaks German.
5. Agree, important thing I learned from your posts.
6. How do you mean this? When you mean that AA can and should be moved around according to needs and used consistently, I think it is/was standard procedure for people who like to use their support units actively.
7. I disagree on the strategy part. Runaway defence and hard defence of Leningrad early on I recall was also something Flavius tried out. Your original content of course is the tactical deployment as described in your AAR.
8. Definitely not. For example, this post: fb.asp?m=3487196

A thing you did not list is drowning the Axis fighters in ground support escort missions and using the magical training effect of ground support escort/fight for the fighter experience, which I learned from you. Edit: And the rail plan, double teaming is old but you squeezed out a bit more than people before.

That should not distract from the fact that I have huge respect for your WitE skills, only the list is not correct in the form. It is unfortunate you never faced MichaelT, I would love to see the AAR and am not sure how to place my bets. But it was not to be :-(

Regarding keeping secrets or not, I think there is nothing wrong with not posting your findings regarding the game machine unless they are outright exploits which should be posted/emailed for morvael to fix, although it is not my way, but I find both ok.

User avatar
HardLuckYetAgain
Posts: 8989
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

I believe some of the points can be challenged. Note I do not want to imply ill will on your side as there are very many war in the East posts on the internet. I have read many old WitE posts (more than I am proud of) so I think I will chime in.
Before I head out to work I wanted to touch base on just this little snippet. I believe we are on the same page. I know that I have given to this community more information or tricks or just brought to the forefront many items.

1. The air campaign is important part of the game. Up to the time I started posting the wisdom was that Air was not necessary to win the game
2. Super Lvov pocket mainstreamed. I did not invent it, but I perfected it.
3. Being able to take Moscow consistently (and Leningrad by default) Before the conventional wisdom was Moscow could be defended. I was ridiculed by Pelton and Michael T as a pipe dream move)
4. Retreat priorities
5. The effects of fatigue
6. AA is not static and is a movable object
7. Opening defense Strat towards Leningrad for the Soviets
8. Destruction of the German Air arm as a strat

By all means this is not an exhaustive list, I am just out of time to post and need to drive to work. What I am trying to say is that I have helped more than you have realized. Just too many tips at once is a bad thing. If I wanted to keep them to my self I would have never posted any at all.



1. When was this considered to be the case? Just one example of many: fb.asp?m=4138183 or even older in chaos45 AAR: tm.asp?m=3871507&mpage=4&key=
2. You were the first Super Lvov player to draw entire 2nd PG South. Makes super Lvov less messy, but you need to sacrify some results in the centre.
Not a reply to you as it was not your point but still interesting, I earliest super Lvov I know is from MichaelT, although I think there was not yet the movement penalty to regiments in June 1941: tm.asp?m=3075748
3. I am surprised MichaelT said this as in the AARs one can see both use of PG 4 for the T3-5 offensive in the center and more weigh on Moscow than for example in Peltons AARs. Of course I do not know every post, though "ridiculed" is a pretty strong word.
4. True I think, but only if you exclude German wargamer forums, but of course it is a bit unfair to count them as only a small minority speaks German.
5. Agree, important thing I learned from your posts.
6. How do you mean this? When you mean that AA can and should be moved around according to needs and used consistently, I think it is/was standard procedure for people who like to use their support units actively.
7. I disagree on the strategy part. Runaway defence and hard defence of Leningrad early on I recall was also something Flavius tried out. Your original content of course is the tactical deployment as described in your AAR.
8. Definitely not. For example, this post: fb.asp?m=3487196

A thing you did not list is drowning the Axis fighters in ground support escort missions and using the magical training effect of ground support escort/fight for the fighter experience, which I learned from you. Edit: And the rail plan, double teaming is old but you squeezed out a bit more than people before.

That should not distract from the fact that I have huge respect for your WitE skills, only the list is not correct in the form. It is unfortunate you never faced MichaelT, I would love to see the AAR and am not sure how to place my bets. But it was not to be :-(

Regarding keeping secrets or not, I think there is nothing wrong with not posting your findings regarding the game machine unless they are outright exploits which should be posted/emailed for morvael to fix, although it is not my way, but I find both ok.

I know that I have given to this community more information or tricks or just brought to the forefront many items

I iterate my sentence again which is, "I know that I have given to this community more information or tricks or just brought to the forefront many items". I emphasis the bolded items and whoever came up with them has the credit. I have "never" claimed ownership of anything since everything on this forum is an exchange of ideas. Which is my whole point to Dinglir that I have given freely my take on either items I have come up with or further exhortation of existing thought.

1. The main stream promotor back then was Pelton on how to handle the German airforce is what I was referencing. But wasn't descriptive enough on what I meant. I know I on more than a few occasions said to not follow that advice for the German Air force. Giving Soviets free victories is not the thing to do.
2. Yes Michael is an excellent player and innovative. Too bad I didn't start posting back then. (what most don't know, I am guessing here they don't, is that on turn 2 the frozen PZ/Moto that were frozen turn one in the South moved to the center. Which gives it almost a wash in units. So not as much sacrifice in my opinion)
3. Maybe you are correct that ridicule is a harsh word. I should say "dismissive" instead. Thank you
6. Meaning that AA had a range not just the hex that it was in for fire effects of aircraft flying over. I brought this out in one of my AAR's and later Telemecus and M60 delved a great deal deeper into this giving the forum great information.
7. Good to disagree. Again I have never claim ownership of anything. Flavius, I believe mentioned it in one AAR but never tried it(I could be wrong but that is my recall) I put it into practice. (Sort of what you did with "Do you want total War?" AAR :-)
8. Again, I am not claiming ownership. Although I don't see full details in this game of an Air strat :( Granted it has been awhile since I read this post and only skimmed it now. But I should have said German Fighter Arm which I realized my mistake after getting in the car but not going to text and drive at the same time to put "fighter" in. If I had that would get your next sentence after number 8 to be semi correct in my number 8 ;-P (if that makes sense)

Now having said this I think a GREAT promoter of ideas(either original or rehash of old ideas) has been "Telemecus". We may not see "eye-to-eye" on everything and we have our disagreements but I applaud him for that.

German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
User avatar
Telemecus
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:32 pm
Contact:

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by Telemecus »

Being British I am of course as adamant that Isaac Newton was THE inventor of calculus as my German friends are adamant that Gottfried Leibniz was. Wikipedia says they both invented it independently - but who would want to trust that ramshackle site!

I think the reality though is nobody really can claim to have invented it. The time was ripe that it would have been invented then by somebody. It has so many intermediate baby steps, that so many people can claim to have invented, that there could not really be one person claiming to have invented it whole. And what was in the minds of Newton and Leibniz had been formed by the journals and academic letter writing of the time. Truly no one individual can claim to be an inventor - it was the result of society (Yes Maggie!)

My experience with WitE is pretty much the same - questions about which individual can claim credit for inventing something are not even wrong or right, they are just meaningless. There are clear trends in thinking that have gone with this game that I have seen ebb and flow, both in this site, in a wargaming club I am a member of and from what others say in other places too. Whether it is the air war, or logistics, or other areas, you can see clear examples of groups thinking together - as well as the developers reacting to it and changing the game as a result.

However I think individuals can claim credit for providing the energy to the intellectual endeavour. Whether it is just asking the right questions, creating the hypotheses or testing them, bringing to the attention hitherto unnoticed curiosities or accumulating data. Even if it is just provoking others to innovate that is just as valuable a contribution. And in that total sense of intellectual labour and inspiration HardLuckYetAgain has been one of the foremost contributors to this game in recent times which is why it would be a travesty for their contributions to end.

As a less experienced player I was certainly hungry for the tips and tricks you can find in AARs such as HardLuckYetAgain's. I know new players now are even hungrier for that still. In recent times my only interest has been the intellectual curiosity of the game. I think disagreements is the wrong word for that, it is a debate that should be celebrated and promoted.
Wargamers Discord https://discord.gg/U6DcDxT
User avatar
Dinglir
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:35 pm

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by Dinglir »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Before I head out to work I wanted to touch base on just this little snippet. I believe we are on the same page. I know that I have given to this community more information or tricks or just brought to the forefront many items.

Fair enough. I stand corrected. I must have misread your comment and put a meaning into it htat simply was not intended.
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
User avatar
EwaldvonKleist
Posts: 2388
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:58 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by EwaldvonKleist »

With the highlighting its fair enough :D

And it was of course Leibniz.
User avatar
M60A3TTS
Posts: 4759
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

RE: Red Star Ascending Axis (BrianG) VS Soviet (HLYA) All Welcome

Post by M60A3TTS »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Glad you have joined the U2VS fan club.
Image



Regards
EvK




You may consider yourself under arrest, Comrade General Armii. You were going to a position in the Far East, but now it's a show trial and twenty years hard labor at a rehabilitation camp.

I know I know, I am guilty. Take me away please.

I was actually referring to EvK.
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”