Aircraft replacement

[Chris21wen]

I'm confused. According to the rules I should not be able to get any replacements for these air units. One of three criteria needs to be met but the overriding rules are 20K and within air transfer range. This is the situation, all but the last one attached to the China Exp can receive replacements when none should.

From the three rules

The base does not have 20K.
For the air unit HQs, the 2nd Air and China Exp are both in Hankow so no 20K and the 1st Air is in Sapporo, too far and out of transfer range of the aircraft.
The China Exp Army (command HQ) in Hankow but again no 20K. The command HQ for the 2nd Air is Southern Army in SIngapore, too far. The command HQ for 1st Air is in Tokyo, too far.

I've tried testing but found nothing. So if anyones got any incite please let me know.

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[RangerJoe]

The units will sometimes receive replacements that arrive as a fragment at another base.

[Chris21wen]

The units will sometimes receive replacements that arrive as a fragment at another base.

Yes they will but these are not fragments direct replacements.

[BBfanboy]

There are two types of replacements:
- monthly production from aircraft industries
- operational or battle losses replacement
I don't think the battle loss replacements require the 20K criterion be met. Also, there does not need to be replacements in the pool (at least for the US aircraft - they just take from the European designated pool).

[JanSako]

The supply limit for direct replacement is 10k, not 20.
20k + airbase size is for upgrades.

[PaxMondo]

The supply limit for direct replacement is 10k, not 20.
20k + airbase size is for upgrades.

Correct as I know it.

[Chris21wen]

This not about upgrades, it's direct replacements

[Chris21wen]

The supply limit for direct replacement is 10k, not 20.
20k + airbase size is for upgrades.

Where the did 10K come from, it's wrong! Read the rules on page 220 of the new manual (it's the same in the old). Here they are in the ...

● The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 1+ (or 0 if a float-equipped group and the base is in a coastal hex) and the base has over
20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool (they may repair before the next
orders phase during the repair phase).
● The air unit is located at a base and the HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type, and the HQ is located
at a base with an airfield size of 1+ and has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged
planes from the pool.
● The air unit is located at a base and the Command level HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type, and
the Command HQ is located at a base with over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged
planes from the pool.

It may appear that this is happening due to the other two rules where the supply is taken from the HQ base.

[Chris21wen]

There are two types of replacements:
- monthly production from aircraft industries
- operational or battle losses replacement
I don't think the battle loss replacements require the 20K criterion be met. Also, there does not need to be replacements in the pool (at least for the US aircraft - they just take from the European designated pool).

I'm not sure what this is about. I'm referring to the ability of an air unit to receive replacement aircraft as per the rules stated on page 220 of the manual and not replacements that go into the pool from industry.

[PaxMondo]

The supply limit for direct replacement is 10k, not 20.
20k + airbase size is for upgrades.

Where the did 10K come from, it's wrong! Read the rules on page 220 of the new manual (it's the same in the old). Here they are in the ...

● The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 1+ (or 0 if a float-equipped group and the base is in a coastal hex) and the base has over
20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool (they may repair before the next
orders phase during the repair phase).
● The air unit is located at a base and the HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type, and the HQ is located
at a base with an airfield size of 1+ and has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged
planes from the pool.
● The air unit is located at a base and the Command level HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type, and
the Command HQ is located at a base with over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged
planes from the pool.

It may appear that this is happening due to the other two rules where the supply is taken from the HQ base.

Hmmm, 20K is what the rules state, but I'm sure I've been seeing 10K for sometime now. I can't check/confirm in my current game as I don't have an example available ... hopefully in the next few turns it will turn up ... (prepping for invasion of SOV and all my aircraft are in built up bases with lot'sa supply. That may change in a few turns ....)

[JanSako]

The supply limit for direct replacement is 10k, not 20.
20k + airbase size is for upgrades.

Where the did 10K come from, it's wrong! Read the rules on page 220 of the new manual (it's the same in the old). Here they are in the ...

● The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 1+ (or 0 if a float-equipped group and the base is in a coastal hex) and the base has over
20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool (they may repair before the next
orders phase during the repair phase).
● The air unit is located at a base and the HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type, and the HQ is located
at a base with an airfield size of 1+ and has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged
planes from the pool.
● The air unit is located at a base and the Command level HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type, and
the Command HQ is located at a base with over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged
planes from the pool.

It may appear that this is happening due to the other two rules where the supply is taken from the HQ base.

The audacity of suggesting one of the thousands of statements in the manual could be incorrect! LOL
Your OP stated the HQ bases are too far to comply with the rules.
An easy way to tell is - when you pull a plane into the group, does the supply number at their current base or the HQ base go down? There will be your answer.

[PaxMondo]

I should add, that the supply requirement for DB's is higher than fighters and TB's. I've done a ton of replacements recently on my carriers, and while I can replace the F's & TB's, I need higher supply for DB's. Never have gotten an exact number, because when I bring in supply to an island base it tends to be in 25K increments at a minimum.

[Chris21wen]

The audacity of suggesting one of the thousands of statements in the manual could be incorrect! LOL

Really! It has never been 10K. The orignal mamual says 20K. Do you possibly think that in 15 odd years such an error would never have been corrected? But having said that there does appear to be an error in what the manual does say regarding range. Read on.

...
An easy way to tell is - when you pull a plane into the group, does the supply number at their current base or the HQ base go down? There will be your answer.

Somehow I thought you would come up with that so I've tested it and the results show supply usage as:

If the base has 20K supply, yes, supply comes ffrom the base. If not then no.
If no then it looks at the second option. E.G The base the air unit's HQ is in. If the base has 20K supply and within air transfer range, yes . If not then no.
If no then the the third option is then tested. E.G The base the air unit's command HQ is in. If the base has 20K supply and within air transfer range, yes. If not then no. Howvever this is where the problems lies, the air transfer range?

This is one example taken directly from my current AI game.
I have a FB in Anking with less then 20K. It's HQ is the 1st Air Div in Sapporo (33 hex range), to far. The command HQ is the General Defece Army in Tokyo (30), also too far. So for all intents and purposes the air unit should not be able receive replacement unless a fragment is form, but it can. This indicates to be the the '..within transfer range of the air unit’s aircraft type' is not correct.

I also tests some independant air units. Without any HQ's you would think only the first option would ne available but this isn't the case, there can. An independant FF unit in Rabaul got replacements when Rabaul only had 12K supply. The supply did not come from Rabaul. It has no HQ and hence no command HQ so were did it come from? After much searching the answer was the base were the command HQ for Rabaul is located, Sothern Army in Singapore. Further testing showed that this base also has to have 20K supply.

If anybody is in any doubt about the 20K you can always test it youself or ignore it. Your choice.

One final thing, Replacement and upgrade cost aren’t free. Supply cost are incurred for each ac dependent on type.

• 12: Fighter, Fighter-Bomber
• 15: Sea planes (FP/FF), Dive, Torpedo Bomber,
• 18: Night Fighter, Recon
• 30: Light, Medium, Heavy Bomber, Patrol, Transport

[JanSako]

Many errors have not been corrected & their severity depends solely on your point of view. Good info in any case, thank you!

Have you figured out if the 'Base Command HQ' rule also applies for units that do have an HQ, not just independent ones?

Also, I am not sure how that explains the ability to fill up other carrier planes but not DB's that Pax Mondo mentioned. I have seen such recently too & could not figure out what was the problem. It should not be a port size issue but still.
In theory you could 'hop off' the airgroup, get replacements (per the Base Command HQ rule), then wait around a day or have the airgroup catch up en-route.

[RangerJoe]

Depending on the side being played, the difference may be the range of the aircraft on the carriers. A Val has a shorter range than the Kate or the Zero. So they may be unable to be flown from a base where the aircraft would be "stored" and then delivered to the carrier's air unit.

[PaxMondo]

Depending on the side being played, the difference may be the range of the aircraft on the carriers. A Val has a shorter range than the Kate or the Zero. So they may be unable to be flown from a base where the aircraft would be "stored" and then delivered to the carrier's air unit.

Maybe .... just maybe this is it ... CV groups are all independent. I was replenishing in Kwaj area, so nearest cmd HQ would have been Truk ...

[Chris21wen]

Seemed to have caused some confused so I maybe should clarify. This is not about carrier based ac, they have different replacement rules to land base ac.

Any independant units mention here are are all land based. These are created when you transfer a normal land based unit onto a ship.

[Chris21wen]

Have you figured out if the 'Base Command HQ' rule also applies for units that do have an HQ, not just independent ones?

Ye sit seems to work in a similar vain re the FB in Anking and my first post. I think it has range restrictions wereas the independents don't.

I do not know exactly how it works, I'm really confused by it. The first two replacement rule works as listed on the tin but the third not. I'm still looking to see if I can get a handle on it but I'll accept any advice here but I think it's twice the transfer range???

[JanSako]

I have followed my own advice - CV was unable to get replacements for Vals, but it was OK for Zeros & Kates.
Hopped off the Vals onto the same base where the CV TF was & voila - replacements were available.

That clearly shows the replacement rules are different for LBA vs Carrier based. Now I am thinking if one could get the replacements if the carrier is just 'disbanded', never mind how big the port. No further ideas about the HQ ranges & such, sorry!

[RangerJoe]

I have followed my own advice - CV was unable to get replacements for Vals, but it was OK for Zeros & Kates.
Hopped off the Vals onto the same base where the CV TF was & voila - replacements were available.

That clearly shows the replacement rules are different for LBA vs Carrier based. Now I am thinking if one could get the replacements if the carrier is just 'disbanded', never mind how big the port. No further ideas about the HQ ranges & such, sorry!

I had carriers at Christmas Island in the Pacific, they could replace Zeros and Kates but not Vals. But that was okay since I only used the Vals for Naval Search while the Kates attacked with two 250kg bombs.