Do Medium Bombers belong in the game?

[KG Erwin]

Getting rid of these frees up slots for OOB designers. IMHO, there's no reason to have B-25s or HE-111's or any other medium/strategic bombers abstractly represented in the game -- they were not used as close support for attacking ground troops. Therefore, I would propose that ALL medium bombers be removed from the OOB databases.

Do any of you know of a scenario that uses them?

[SAMWolf]

I have to agree with you, especially since they can no longer be used like the other planes in the game.

I believe there are some Mega-Campaign scenarios that have them.

[BruceAZ_MatrixForum]

We have quite a few scens and campaigns, especially in the Pacific with the Betty, that use this type of planes.

Won't this screw up these battles if they are not in the OOB's?

Recon
Semper Fi

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: BruceAZ

We have quite a few scens and campaigns, especially in the Pacific with the Betty, that use this type of planes.

Won't this screw up these battles if they are not in the OOB's?

Recon
Semper Fi

That's all I needed to know, man. They are used in pre-existing scenarios, so they gotta stay.

[Puukkoo]

Hmph...

I think labelling them just as medium bombers actually saves space. If need be you can adjust their bomb load and rename them to whatever you want: B-25, B-26, A-20 or even B-24, B-17 with larger loads of bombs.

It seems that if you have removed them from your OOB, they will not work anymore in the particular scenario they were used in. Not sure though.

[omegaall]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

ORIGINAL: BruceAZ

We have quite a few scens and campaigns, especially in the Pacific with the Betty, that use this type of planes.

Won't this screw up these battles if they are not in the OOB's?

Recon
Semper Fi

That's all I needed to know, man. They are used in pre-existing scenarios, so they gotta stay.

From my point I agree they should stay. Your reason, as they are in existing scenarios is valid.


Why is this being raised anyway?

I would also point back to the “How Many Actually Use the OOB Editor?“ thread where Wild Bill pointed out the use of the standard, Matrix, OOBs for building scenarios etc. This is a valid point.
Also mentioned was the fact that NOT all SPWAW gamers are hooked into this or other SPWAW forums. Possibly something to remember.

Are you pointing to an official rebuild of the current OOBs ???

Also I though Mike was somewhere along the way looking at increasing the number of slots for weapons, units and formations. Why jump in and make this type of change if this slot change is somewhere along in the rebuild process.

As for playing around with items as Puukkoo mentioned, theer is actually a link between the OOB file and the scenarion dat file. that is teh scenario dat file does not hold all teh information per unit for a given scenario. Some is read from the OOB file as well. So ther appears to be a level of cross linking here.

[Puukkoo]

ORIGINAL: omegaall

As for playing around with items as Puukkoo mentioned, theer is actually a link between the OOB file and the scenarion dat file. that is teh scenario dat file does not hold all teh information per unit for a given scenario. Some is read from the OOB file as well. So ther appears to be a level of cross linking here.

The link does exsist. I noticed it while playing academy depot course 102 for artillery.

[Riun T]

I personally love all the air assets available in the game right now and have to admitt that being able to grab a couple of flights of B-25's and 26's for prebattle softening perposes has been a godsend in more than one occation when the computer offers that arm,Bloody jungle rain and fog most of the time , so when I call in the mediums ANY air is great.RT p.s. really miss the ship busting michel's with the 75 nose gun and 8 .50's for strike support , didn't I see a assie varient with a 3in. mortar inplace of the 75?

[Alby]

This was voted on at the Depot when the OOB project started. most voted they should go.

[omegaall]

Hey !! Let's be careful with the wording here !!!!!!!!!

ORIGINAL: Alby

This was voted on at the Depot when the OOB project started. most voted they should go.

First of all the Depot has the right to make its own OOB set but they do not control the game for all the other players. Also NOT everyone is a member of either this forum or the Depot.

As for the most voting they should go lest look at the most bit.

There were 2 polls and the facts are:
Poll 1:
What should we do with level bombers?
Remove them entirely from all OOBs 48% [ 31 ]
Keep '2 medium level bombers' in each OOB 35% [ 23 ]
Leave them 'as-is' 15% [ 10 ]

Total Votes : 64

Poll 2:
What should we do with level bombers?
Remove them entirely from all OOBs 60% [ 27 ]
Keep '2 medium level bombers' in each OOB 40% [ 18 ]

Total Votes : 45

The total number voting here is NOT what I would call overwhelming at all considering the Depot has for a start over 1000 members.
That is, at best a total of 6.5% if not smaller of All Depot members.

Sorry Alby BUT 6 odd percent of players do not dictate what happens in this. What is at the Depot is their business but don’t throw statements out like the one you have when the real numbers are really meaningless to the whole community.

[KG Erwin]

It's a moot point, omegaall. My original question was simply out of curiousity.

However, Alby's Depot mod is a good alternative, and removing the medium bombers did free up a few slots for additional formations/units.

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: omegaall

Hey !! Let's be careful with the wording here !!!!!!!!!

ORIGINAL: Alby

This was voted on at the Depot when the OOB project started. most voted they should go.

First of all the Depot has the right to make its own OOB set but they do not control the game for all the other players. Also NOT everyone is a member of either this forum or the Depot.

As for the most voting they should go lest look at the most bit.

There were 2 polls and the facts are:
Poll 1:
What should we do with level bombers?
Remove them entirely from all OOBs 48% [ 31 ]
Keep '2 medium level bombers' in each OOB 35% [ 23 ]
Leave them 'as-is' 15% [ 10 ]

Total Votes : 64

Poll 2:
What should we do with level bombers?
Remove them entirely from all OOBs 60% [ 27 ]
Keep '2 medium level bombers' in each OOB 40% [ 18 ]

Total Votes : 45

The total number voting here is NOT what I would call overwhelming at all considering the Depot has for a start over 1000 members.
That is, at best a total of 6.5% if not smaller of All Depot members.

Sorry Alby BUT 6 odd percent of players do not dictate what happens in this. What is at the Depot is their business but don’t throw statements out like the one you have when the real numbers are really meaningless to the whole community.

Ease off dude

First off, dont tell me what I can or can't comment on.

no one is trying to dictate anything!!!

I was merely commenting on the topic here. nothing more, nothing less.

This has nothing to do with the Depot trying to control anything, nor is it some secret plot here to get rid of the bombers.

I guess I should have phrased it better.
of the few players who voted on the topic, most voted against them.

In my opinion, they dont belong in a tactical level game. and they use up unit slots that could be put to better use.
I am entitled to my opinion as are you.
Lets bring back the B52s flying across the map while we are at it too. like we had in one version. [8|]

[Puukkoo]

Don't remove the Bombers completely signores! Keep some of them alive at least as scenario designer's tools.

[Alby]

Guys, Gunny said was he was just asking out of curiosity , thats all there is to it.
But leaving some in for designers is a good idea for me to use in the Depot Mod, so I will place some in the Norway OOB, for scenario and campaign designers like Dutchie, that use the Mod.

[RockinHarry]

AFAIR, Lost Victories MC uses some as well. Now with mod Swapper available I wouldn´t see any problem offering alternative OOB´s, since swapping OOB´s is just a matter of seconds. Personally I would get rid of the med and heavy bombers as well, but you just gain very few additional "free" slots. Now what to use them for?? If you´re a single OOB modder (not a team) it´s no problem though. Depending what OOB version you use, norway OOB would be a good choice since most people expect the additional stuff to be there already.

[Alby]

hey Harry, after placing the Bombers in the Norway oob, they will only show up when using the scenario editor?
Is this normal?
I have checked all dates and availabilties, data field errors, wrong nation in formation screen...etc etc..
everything looks fine.
not that I want them to show up in a normal game buy menu, mind you, but was just wondering why this would happen?
notice there are some other units in Norway that do the same thing...the Destroyer(ship) is one I recall.
[&:]

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: Alby

hey Harry, after placing the Bombers in the Norway oob, they will only show up when using the scenario editor?
Is this normal?
I have checked all dates and availabilties, data field errors, wrong nation in formation screen...etc etc..
everything looks fine.
not that I want them to show up in a normal game buy menu, mind you, but was just wondering why this would happen?
notice there are some other units in Norway that do the same thing...the Destroyer(ship) is one I recall.
[&:]

Hm...can´t tell without seeing the OOB![&:] The stuff i placed in there is just for blowing up, filling airfields and such. Double check formation menues? custom stuff is 1949 only while standard norway can only be acces between 1930 and 1948!

[Alby]

maybe thats it, you can't use items from Norway in 1949 unless going thru thre scenario editor
as I made the bombers avaialable Dec49 only

[omegaall]

A point that was raised in one of the other threads somewhere re national characteristics associated with OOBs.

When you take a unit form nation X and add it to Nation Y the characteristics of that unit are still nation X characteristics.

If you use this with such items as off board arty or bombers you are not able to change any issues e.g. experience, moral etc for that unit or that units leader...

So if nation Y has strong/high values and nation X has low ones then that unit will perform badly due to that national characteristics association.

Would it not be much easier if we collectively suggested to MG to give/provide Mike time to redo the OOB structure as he has suggested that is, more slots for weapons, units an d formations, eg 1000, and also more weapon slots for each unit as he suggested 6 from memory.

This saves a lot of discussion re do we have this unit/formation or not.. No bush fires etc either ..Got enough real ones raging about the country with out virtual ones here..