Dettering Jonhston Island invasion

[bobogoboom]

also 1st marine reg and the marine aa unit don't require pps to move.

[gladiatt]

Thanks gentlemens.
What i really in need is:
-10 ML and 1 MLE
-4CV and 25 DD
-250 bombers, rather B-25 than Martin139
-350 fighters; please dont send Buffalo, i'd rather have some Zero, they seem to fight well.
-6 dutch Div, 8 english Div, and 3 or 4 US div
-30 sub with good torps
-8 more PBY Catalina sqadron
- a coach for the chinese troops.

Errrr. I need this NOW, not in 2 years.
Thanks a lot [:)] [;)]

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: engineer
I think Feinder is onto something here.  The first few months of the game are a window where the Japanese can do just about anything so the key that you have to do is survive and break their script.  Possible script breakers:

• Use your naval assets in the SRA to launch some night surface raids on his likely invasion targets.  Don't linger - hit and run is the name of the game. 
• Use some political points to pry loose a Dutch battalion or regiment and move them to a key target like Palembang or Balikpapan so the calculated assault force is no longer sufficient to over-run the target on schedule.  The Aussie battalions at Darwin are another mobile reserve asset you can use to interrupt the script.
• Unless you've moved the AVG to Singapore so you have good CAP, pull your Martin's and Hudsons back to Palembang and just keep enough recon at Singapore to direct the planes to hit the invading convoys at Khotu Baru/Kuantan/Mersing
• Before you lose your minelayers lay some defensive minefields at likely landing spots.  I prefer to put down one big field than a number of smaller fields, but that's a personal preference.  You don't have any tenders or nearby size 9 ports so the minelayers can't reload east of India or west of Oz so that sets a question on what to do with the ML after dropping the mines.  You can "Sir Robin" them out of harm's way or leave them in place as forlorn hopes. 
• You should also use some Political Points to identify which units you want to salvage from the Philippines and the Indies.  Usually aviation support assets and air units are the most useful.  The Dutch recon squadrons will upgrade to Lightnings and the Martins will upgrade to Mitchells.  Saving one or two Philippine LCU's is also a somewhat gamey but useful ploy (use sub evac) since you'll accrue those squads even thought the Empire will end up occupying the Philippines. You can save political points by waiting until the unit has wasted away a significant portion of it's strength and then spend the PP to re-assign the HQ. The LCU's, once rebuilt, are useful for garrison purposes. 

The Allied early challenge is conducting a fighting withdrawal.  At any given point the Japanese can be overwhelmingly invincible, but they don't have enough strength to be invincible everywhere.  Killing off those precious 70 and 80 experience pilots (especially if they are still in Nates, Claudes, or Nells) is lot easier than when they get into much better planes in 1942.  Another point to bear in mind is that your inexperienced pilots in the SRA grow up fast if they survive.  Very low hit rates during the first couple weeks of the war are to be expected, but as the game moves into late December and January you'll see those pilots starting to score hits.

More seriously: i had already the will to do all this advice ;they were long ago debated on the forum, i have read and learned them. But the will to do this, and the ability to do this is another problem.
So far, some troops evacuating from Sumatra (small Dutch Battn) had sunk with their transport (damn miss Nell). As should have been expected, Malacca strait had become a No-Go zone in less than 10 days. Sulu sea is the grave of most AK and AS escaped from Manilla.
ML had dropped mines, and it was one of my most useful weapon: a Jap DD, part of a CA raider TF in Batavia, had stroke one, and was torpedoed by a dutch sub while trying to get back toward Saigon. Has far as now (16 dec in my game), it is far better then my bombers (Hudson and Blenheim from Malaya, Martin139 from DEI) wich had scored....0; yes, zero hits on CA or AP, or CVL Ryujo wich closed Sulu Sea. But, once the ships are empty, theses ML are useless, and they are crawling slowly toward Trincomalee.
As yet, my airforce is only giving japs pilots experience and victory point. Only the B-17 in Philippinas did manage to destroy a few planes on ground in Legaspi (taken the 9 dec by the japs). Thats....hm, lets say FRUSTRATING !!!
AVG was send in Georgetown (because 2 hex away from the landings in Khota Bharu. Only one squadron, because the base force can't hold more: the avitation support sqad are disabled from the beginning of the game,and can't manage to get in order because of lack of supply. And this AVG squadron, altough it had downed maybe 2 zero and 5 or 6 Nate, had been torn to piece, in the air and on the ground. During the first 3 or 4 days, some english bombers launched attack against the TF in Khota Bharu, aiming at the CA rather than the AP; then, the loss of morale, the destruction on ground or in the air, the CAP presence over the targets, made that the attack were not triggered, or had no results. After the flattening of the AVG squadron, it get back to Burma with 4 planes....
Subs had yet evacuated 2 base force in south Philippinas , but the cost for more usefull units are horribles in PP. I must wait for theses troops to be crushed by the japs, who seems to be a bit slow in Luzon....maybe because his Div are elsewhere, planning for something more horrible.....
As i once said to a pal on mail (i think he'll know it's him) , it is very different to learn in an academic way, reading lessons of a teacher or earing lessons of your seniors (parents, veterans, and so on), and to learn by experimenting it yourself (sorry, is it a english sentence ????).
One thing i also learned 20 years ago when i was playing wargames on a board, and that is still true with a PBEM: never think that your ennemie is going to make mistake. You can't win a war just hoping your opponant is going to be stupid.

HMMM, this post is a bit long, i am not sure i should have done the beginning of an AAR (but as previously said somewhere in the thread, it would be a pale one, without screen post, with a poor style as english is not my main language, and i don't want to give free intel to my opponant, even if i like this guy).
PS: Robert, don't explain another time how to post screen capture [:-] [;)]

[bobogoboom]

what hight are your bombers set at?

[gladiatt]

Hi Bobo
It depend of what i am looking for: result or keeping my planes alive.
Usually above 10000ft in order to avoid the moral check for planes with missions below this altitude.
Edit: my torpedoes bomber are usually set to 5000 or 6000 ft. But as a result, few fly the missions. I must admit that morale is low for many of the dutch air units: they had been shaken by flack or CAP when attacking japs ships; usually half of the sqadron fly, and with depleted sqadron, it mean few aircraft...and no hits.

Johnston Island fall on the 17th dec. Shunzan Nav guard unit AND more important, HQ of 14e Army. Could mean he is going to really invade the Hawain Island. I don't like this.

[bradfordkay]

Eric (did i get your name right?) - the altitude below which level bombers receive a morale hit is 6000', not 10.000'.
Unless you guys agreed to a house rule forcing them to stay above 10k, you can drop down to 6k and get some better results.

An IJA Army HQ is the same as an allied Corps HQ, so don't read too much into that. It may just mean that he needed the support squads. While you want to be prepared against an invasion of the Hawaiian Islands, I personally can't understand a strategy of invading Hawaii in Dec '41 without having committed the Dec 7 sneak attack. Your LBA is much stronger now than it would have been had he performed the attack, and your base is not under repair.

I'd place a few of your Hawaiian B17 squadrons on 50% naval search (along with the Catalinas and any Hudsons at 80%) and dig your infantry in on Oahu. That is the one island that you have to defend. If you spread your troops among more islands, you're more likely to lose Oahu. It's going to be a long time before you'll have enough PP to bring any West Coast divisions to Hawaii, and those are the only ones you can afford to use to garrison the outlying islands until reinforcements arrive.

[racndoc]

gladiatt....

Havent played stock in a few years as I prefer CHS but from what I remember its pretty easy for the Allies to put up an effective defense in the SRA in 1941. Take a deep breath and analyze your situation.

I agree with a previous poster in that an attack on the Hawaiian Islands is most unlikely if your opponent left both the BBs and the pre-war air force there intact. Try to account for all the IJA SAA divisions and see which ones you have spotted...with 2 US divisions in Oahu Japan will need at least 5-6 divisions to make an assault. Get engineer units from the west coast and NOPAC to Hawaii and build up the entrenchments. Use your DMs and lay minefields throughout the Hawaiian Islands. Look at the Intel report every turn and see if any IJA units are prepping for Hawaii.

Try to regain the initiative.....look at his naval force disposition. If Japan actually had 7 BBs and KB by Johnston Island, what is he going to use to take the SRA? If you evacuated PoW and Repulse from Singapore on your first move you should have virtual surface equality with Japan in the SRA by Jan. 1942. You need to create your own "8th Air Force" in the SRA and use it to destroy Japan's air force and you CAN do this within 4 weeks. Here's how:

1) Create a series of supply depots across the map with over 20,000 supply and use these depots to take on replacements and upgrades for your LCUs, base units, and aircraft groups. I normally stockpile supply for this at Calcutta, Singapore, Soerabaja, Palembang, Manila and Brisbane. Calcutta should already have 20,000 supply. Use your AKs to pull supply out of Kendari, Muntok and Balikpappan to build up to 20,000 supply in Soerabaja...this is the most critical one.

2) Get ALL of your USAAF AC out of the PI NOW! Move the fighters to Java and the 4Es to Calcutta. DONT use any replacements up, just pull out the depleted units as it is cheaper to pay PPs for them.

3) Stage all the west coast and Hawaiian 4Es across the Pacific to Australia and then to Darwin and Soerabaja. Again, dont waste any replacements on them until they reach Java. Convert the Bolos to B-25s and 4Es....you can leave most of the B-25s in Hawaii if you want or you can stage some of them also across the Pacific.

4) Get the 7th Bomber Group to Calcutta and upgrade to the LB-30. Now you will be able to upgrade all your other 4E groups to the LB-30. You get some 55 LB-30s and 40 B-17s per month....you should have over 200 4Es in the Far East by mid Jan. 1942. You start getting 95 B-25s per month in Jan. 1942 so use as many of these as you can.

5) Get all of the AVG to Java and keep them fully built up as they do not suffer from the Zero bonus. Use your upgraded Hurricanes and P-40s for point defense. Use your Buffaloes and Demons for 4E escort. It only takes one escort fighter squadron to help the 4Es pass their morale die roll so dont use too many. Use the 4Es to nuke the major Japanese airfields...usually Khota Bharu, Saigon, Kuching and later Balikpappan. Once you shut down a Betty/Nell airfield with your 4Es you will be able to move troops and supplies throughout the area. Get as many AC from India into the DEI as you can before Japan takes all the Burma bases.

6) Move the Aussie Hudsons to Soerbaja and upgrade to Beaufort V-IXs....these tough bombers can get through CAP and carry torpedoes to a range of 4 hexes....you should be able to mass over 60 Beauforts in a single attack by mid Jan. 1942 but they need level 4 airifelds so hold on to every one you can. This will also free up Hudsons to fill out the understrength squadrons and allow you to rapidly increase your operational strength.

7) Use the Dutch recon groups on the Japanese airfields to help improve your bombing results...I believe there are 2 recon groups with a 5 hex range...the remainder have a 2 hex range.

8) Get as many Vildebeests and Swordfish from SE Asia to Java as you can and keep them out of combat along with the Dutch T.IVa. Train them by flying ASW or naval search but dont fritter then away in small, inconsequential attacks. They can be flown out of level 2 airfields and should be used in mass with P-40 escort when you can get a shot at CVL Ryujo or when a massive amhibious force approaxhes Java, Amboina, Balikpappan or Timor.

Keep your bombers safe in Burma or Java behind the front lines. Wait for the weather to clear and after flying recon of course stage to a forward airfield(Singapore is especially effective for this) and nuke the airfield of your choice. Use P-40s and Hurricanes for CAP over the airfields you are flying your bombers out of. Try to time nuking a Betty/Nell base when you are moving a large resupply/reinforcement into the area.

9)LCUs and base units will take on replacements if stacked at bases with over 20,000 supply. Once your base units take on replacements and upgrade you will have much more efective AA and you engineers will build and entrench faster. LCUs of course will grow dramatically stronger in AV.

10) If your opponent is massing his A6M2s for sweeps and CAP over airfields start bombing his oil and resource hexes to force him to disperse his fighters.

If you can mass 60 Beauforts, 40 Vildebeests Swordfish and T.IVa, 100 Hudsons Martins and Blenheims and another 200 4Es your opponent will need to commit a significant portion of KB in order to take the DEI.....not to mention some of those 7 BBs off Johnston to take on PoW, Repulse and a couple of old RN BBs. This would certainly render an invasion of Hawaii improbable if not impossible.

[gladiatt]

AdmSpruance and Bradfordkay:
Ok guys, i read you. I even think of what most of you are talking about.
It's just that i don't manage: AVG had been really torn to pieces. As the P-40 in Manilla.
The pools are empty. There is no Beaufort in the pools (and the brits planes, if i remenber, can't upgrade before mai42).
The B-17 in philippinas don't really do good job, but there are still a few damaged on ground, raising the PP cost for these. My PP pool is empty because i've withdrawn 3 useless base from Philippinas, and move a dutch batt from north sumatra (the dutch batt is now undersea because of misses Nell and Mary).
The jap is using raider TF in Java Sea, wich usually move where i don't expect them: if ever i try to put a trap with Doorman TF, the jap is elsewhere. The dutch subs are never on the path of a TF (how dumb i must be !!! never clever!) Those wich can lay mine must go to trincomalee to rearm mines.
B-18 Bolo have an empty pool to, and there is no prod of B-25; what i am afraid is that the jap is faster than lightning ! (i am waiting for 19 dec turn right now). Soerebaja short on supply. Singapore expected AK with supplies from remote places of DEI , but AK are now playground for fishes...
It seems my best would be to complain but not to surrenders (you know, the French are supposed to complain everytime for everything, i think i'll suscript to this description [:o] ).
AVG in Java would mean no fighter in Burma: the buffalos are just giving victory points and experience to the japanese pilots (remenber: actually the Hurricane reinforcement are something like 25 days away !!! tooooooo long ).
Australia/Rabaul: Rabaul fell 18 dec. Lark batt and NVGR starving in the jungle (withdrawal by sub in 8 or 9 days). Next: Port Moresby ? Noumea ? Closure of the road between West Coast and Australia ???? Ouch !

OK, i have complained a bit, that's good.
I keep track of any advice, i melt it with my ideas (wich, in my sturbornly self estime, are obviously better than the veterans opinions [;)] ), and i try to compose with the actions of my Czech opponant.

By the way, did you know the Czech flag in 1919 used the french colors (after the disapearing of Austrian6hungarian Empire, the treaty i don't remenber, same as Versaille for Germany, may be Nievre ????) because France guaranted the existance of this new country ???? (and France only protested when Hitler swallowed it....pity).
May be i should try to soften my opponant mood in the desire to be friend [;)][:D]

[Barb]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt
By the way, did you know the Czech flag in 1919 used the french colors (after the disapearing of Austrian6hungarian Empire, the treaty i don't remenber, same as Versaille for Germany, may be Nievre ????) because France guaranted the existance of this new country ???? (and France only protested when Hitler swallowed it....pity).
May be i should try to soften my opponant mood in the desire to be friend [;)][:D]

Treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye (10th september 1919) recognized successor states of Austrio-Hungarian Empite. Among them Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia had strong ties with France (thanks also to Gen. M.R.Stefanik).
Netherland had the first tricolore - symbolizing "Republic". Peter the Great used this as base for flag of Russia with changed colors. In the begining of 20th century many slavic nations in Europe turned towards Russia as their "big brother" (among them Czechoslovakia). Historical Czech flag was white-red (as you see on Polish flag today) - white symbolizing silver Czech lion and red as shield background. Blue was added to symbolize Slovakia in form of wedge.

Munich agreement in 1938 is still very strongly viewed as treachery in Czech and Slovak republic today - better to not mention it [:-]

[bobogoboom]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

Hi Bobo
It depend of what i am looking for: result or keeping my planes alive.
Usually above 10000ft in order to avoid the moral check for planes with missions below this altitude.
Edit: my torpedoes bomber are usually set to 5000 or 6000 ft. But as a result, few fly the missions. I must admit that morale is low for many of the dutch air units: they had been shaken by flack or CAP when attacking japs ships; usually half of the sqadron fly, and with depleted sqadron, it mean few aircraft...and no hits.

Johnston Island fall on the 17th dec. Shunzan Nav guard unit AND more important, HQ of 14e Army. Could mean he is going to really invade the Hawain Island. I don't like this.

set your bombers to 6-8k that way they actualy have a chance of hitting something set your torp planes to 15k cause when they make their torp runs they will run at torp hight.

[bobogoboom]

also don't worry that your planes are not hitting stuff now the more missions they fly the better they get come mid jan you will start to see it pay off.

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: Barb

ORIGINAL: gladiatt
By the way, did you know the Czech flag in 1919 used the french colors (after the disapearing of Austrian6hungarian Empire, the treaty i don't remenber, same as Versaille for Germany, may be Nievre ????) because France guaranted the existance of this new country ???? (and France only protested when Hitler swallowed it....pity).
May be i should try to soften my opponant mood in the desire to be friend [;)][:D]

Treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye (10th september 1919) recognized successor states of Austrio-Hungarian Empite. Among them Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia had strong ties with France (thanks also to Gen. M.R.Stefanik).
Netherland had the first tricolore - symbolizing "Republic". Peter the Great used this as base for flag of Russia with changed colors. In the begining of 20th century many slavic nations in Europe turned towards Russia as their "big brother" (among them Czechoslovakia). Historical Czech flag was white-red (as you see on Polish flag today) - white symbolizing silver Czech lion and red as shield background. Blue was added to symbolize Slovakia in form of wedge.

Munich agreement in 1938 is still very strongly viewed as treachery in Czech and Slovak republic today - better to not mention it [:-]

Thanks for the history, i always like to learn about it ! also the meaning of a flag is quite interesting.
Munich: i am not responsible myself, but i have some shame for this point of history.

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

also don't worry that your planes are not hitting stuff now the more missions they fly the better they get come mid jan you will start to see it pay off.

You know what ? i am discovering that patience is not among my virtues.....[;)]

[bobogoboom]

me either but you have to have it for witp.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

also don't worry that your planes are not hitting stuff now the more missions they fly the better they get come mid jan you will start to see it pay off.

You know what ? i am discovering that patience is not among my virtues.....[;)]

That's mainly cause you are doing a grand campaign....smaller ones don't require anywhere near as much as time,effort,planning or patience.[:)]

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

also don't worry that your planes are not hitting stuff now the more missions they fly the better they get come mid jan you will start to see it pay off.

You know what ? i am discovering that patience is not among my virtues.....[;)]

That's mainly cause you are doing a grand campaign....smaller ones don't require anywhere near as much as time,effort,planning or patience.[:)]

You know what ? i want some REAL planes, not those pesky Buffalos, or worse, the CW21-DEMON, absolutely useless. I want some PLLLLLLAAAAANES !! [:@]
............
breathing.....
OK guys, this is just a game, and "my" czech opponant is a kind guy.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: gladiatt




You know what ? i am discovering that patience is not among my virtues.....[;)]

That's mainly cause you are doing a grand campaign....smaller ones don't require anywhere near as much as time,effort,planning or patience.[:)]

You know what ? i want some REAL planes, not those pesky Buffalos, or worse, the CW21-DEMON, absolutely useless. I want some PLLLLLLAAAAANES !! [:@]
............
breathing.....
OK guys, this is just a game, and "my" czech opponant is a kind guy.

P-40E and even P-40B models are not bad... Hurris do pretty well... Buffs are useful on LR escort mission (they can help your bombers get through CAP), but pretty useless for point defense unless you are going against Claudes or Nates.

Of course, in stock, it is quite possible for the Japanese to outproduce the Allies in fighters through the war (with PDUs on), so good luck!

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: gladiatt




You know what ? i am discovering that patience is not among my virtues.....[;)]

That's mainly cause you are doing a grand campaign....smaller ones don't require anywhere near as much as time,effort,planning or patience.[:)]

You know what ? i want some REAL planes, not those pesky Buffalos, or worse, the CW21-DEMON, absolutely useless. I want some PLLLLLLAAAAANES !! [:@]
............
breathing.....
OK guys, this is just a game, and "my" czech opponant is a kind guy.

Don't feel bad , in my current PBEM with Bobo, I had a group of P-26's and 5 squadrons of wirraways, and because Bobo forgot to set the PDU's on , Istill have the wirraways and only just "traded up" my p-26's for for p-39's. And I've got a bunch of B-17c's. It's almost Sept. 42! I had no fighters worth mentioning , so he had very little difficulty taking PM. YOU WANT REAL PLANES! Try P-26's my friend! Let the P-39 be the "best plane " you have! [:D]

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve




That's mainly cause you are doing a grand campaign....smaller ones don't require anywhere near as much as time,effort,planning or patience.[:)]

You know what ? i want some REAL planes, not those pesky Buffalos, or worse, the CW21-DEMON, absolutely useless. I want some PLLLLLLAAAAANES !! [:@]
............
breathing.....
OK guys, this is just a game, and "my" czech opponant is a kind guy.

Don't feel bad , in my current PBEM with Bobo, I had a group of P-26's and 5 squadrons of wirraways, and because Bobo forgot to set the PDU's on , Istill have the wirraways and only just "traded up" my p-26's for for p-39's. And I've got a bunch of B-17c's. It's almost Sept. 42! I had no fighters worth mentioning , so he had very little difficulty taking PM. YOU WANT REAL PLANES! Try P-26's my friend! Let the P-39 be the "best plane " you have! [:D]

You know what ? i managed to evacuate 3 (!!!) P-26 from Luzon to china....the Sally should take care..........[8|]

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


P-40E and even P-40B models are not bad... Hurris do pretty well... Buffs are useful on LR escort mission (they can help your bombers get through CAP), but pretty useless for point defense unless you are going against Claudes or Nates.

Of course, in stock, it is quite possible for the Japanese to outproduce the Allies in fighters through the war (with PDUs on), so good luck!

yeah, that's what i mean: i want REAL planes! P-38 and F-4U
well, it's only one year or so to wait.......