Are diesel subs actually a useful asset?

[Unzen]

I've tended to ignore them for the most part on any scenario. Preferring to use them as a creeping set of underwater ears than anything more useful. Have I not come across the right type if diesel sub yet, to make an error in this judgement!?

I've always assumed that they are too slow and too noisy to be of much use in Harpoon's waters?

[Stalintc]

ORIGINAL: Unzen

I've tended to ignore them for the most part on any scenario. Preferring to use them as a creeping set of underwater ears than anything more useful. Have I not come across the right type if diesel sub yet, to make an error in this judgement!?

I've always assumed that they are too slow and too noisy to be of much use in Harpoon's waters?

Actually the Kilo diesel submarine can be very useful in sneaking up to SAGs and other battlegroups for a torpedo salvo. They are actually as quiet as if not quieter than your average nuclear submarine when they are submerged and running on batteries, provided of course you can get close enough for a good battery run to close on the surface group..

Usually running ahead of the group you wish to attack using the diesel engines and then lying in their path requires little correctional manuvering can be the best way to get at your target while using the least battery power, making them come to you rather than going to them.

It is not the sub its how you use them [:)]

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: Unzen
I've tended to ignore them for the most part on any scenario. Preferring to use them as a creeping set of underwater ears than anything more useful. Have I not come across the right type if diesel sub yet, to make an error in this judgement!? I've always assumed that they are too slow and too noisy to be of much use in Harpoon's waters?

Diesel subs are difficult to operate effectively in open ocean, 'bluewater' environments. They lack the speed and endurance to be able to be deployed far from home in a useful period of time (for most scenarios), and that same lack of speed and endurance makes it hard for them to 'catch' surface ships.

In the littoral, 'brown water' environment, however, or along coastlines or in maritime chokepoints such as straits (e.g. Gibraltar, Hormuz, Malacca, etc), the diesel sub is deadly. In these situations, naval traffic must pass through a narrow body of water. If a diesel sub can lurk quietly and patiently here, potential targets must come to the sub rather than the sub having to chase them. Because of this, the diesel sub is sometimes referred to as the "moving minefield".

I would not want to underestimate the threat posed by a modern, quiet diesel electric or AIP submarine in this kind of environment, nor would I dismiss such an asset if it were available to me. [;)]

[Unzen]

Ah, maybe I've been slating them too early then! I think a little more diesel-subbing is called for - noise, or no noise!

[CV32]

I should add that, for the diesel sub crew, life is pretty tough. if you're detected, and your enemy has any sort of decent ASW gear, your life is also probably going to be pretty short. You don't have the speed and endurance to run away or dive to safer depths, and since you're probably already operating in restricted waters, there aren't many places you could run anyway.

Lt. Werner: "I asked for it. 'To be heading into the inexorable...where no mother will care for us...no woman crosses our path...where only reality reigns...with cruelty and grandeur.' I was drunk with those words. Well, this is reality."

Great fun. [:D] [;)]

[SireChaos]

Essentially, you should use them like an intelligent, self-redeploying minefield. Put them in the enemy´s way, then wait for him to come to them. And then - KABOOM!
 
What CV32 said goes for all subs, I guess, against a capable opponent. A single submarine against a surface task force is a forlorn hope - but a reasonably capable submarine, handled with reasonable competence, can do dreadful damage before it is sunk.

[Warhorse64]

Actually, unless the AI side is very well set up (rare) or gets unreasonably lucky (also rare), a properly handled modern SSN has an excellent chance of laying waste to a surface group and then slipping away untouched. Probably the biggest danger is fields of active sonobuoys. 

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: Warhorse64
... a properly handled modern SSN has an excellent chance of laying waste to a surface group and then slipping away untouched.

Prime example:
Date: 2 May 1982
Location: South Atlantic
SSN: HMS Conqueror.
Target: ARA General Belgrano steaming with Task Force 79.3.
Result: