Soviet rockets

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I did some "fast forward" analysis on Soviet rockets, to try to assess, under 1.0 version, which ones are winners and which ones are losers in order to win the game.
Important: this is on "hard" difficulty

Sputnik: Critical
this is the only choice that will allow you to safely reach the prestige goal (Sputnik 1 and 2). I tried Luna, but it didn't reach reliability of >80% so too much of a gamble

Luna: Not needed
Unless of course you want to be 100% sure you send the 1st probes to the moon. A waste of time, effort and money when it critically short. Just wait until you have Proton-KD to send those damn probes.

Molnya: Useless
A bigger version of Luna, I cannot find any use for it

Vostok: Critical
This is basically your only choice of reaching "First man on space" goal, which is of course very important for any Soviet game.

Voskhod: Not needed
Unless you want to do the 1st space walk, of course

Soyuz: Useless
Proton-KD is better in each and every sense. This is a shame!, how can the developers defined that the workhorse of the soviet space program, the most launched rocket on history is

Proton KD: Critical
In the current game, this is the "do it all" rocket; almost all; as it cannot go to the moon with a human payload. But it can do pretty much everything else.
This rocket invalidates the need of "non human capable" rockets, as there are very few interplanetary mission t

Proton K: Useless
Unless you have a strong interest on "heavy" interplanetary probes; even if you do, it will be cheaper to use a human capable heavy lifter

N-1: Critical
This is the ticket to the moon; can also be used for sending "heavy" probes

UR-700: Unknown
So far, I have always followed the N-1 path, so I have no idea on this

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I also did a quick test on Soyuz vs. PRoton KD

I started researching on Q1 1960 ; with Vostok around +80%. I put the same team research team (good, adequate, but not great) and fast forwarded to Q1 1963
Results were:
Soyuz: 73.3%
PRoton KD: 78.4%

Which means Proton KD, is not only cheaper to open, cheaper to lauch, bigger cargo capability and capable of interplanetary missions. But also, it takes less time to research

[Jorge_Stanbury]

a typo, and somehow I cannot edit my own posts!

results were:
Soyuz: 78.3%
PRoton KD: 80.9%

[Jorge_Stanbury]

One last test; does it makes sense to build Voskhod? does it impact the R&D of Soyuz or Proton KD?

I started researching Voskhod on Q1 1960; and run it for 1 year and a half (in which it reach close to 80%). then I stopped it and moved to Soyuz and Proton KD

Results were:
Soyuz: 73.3
Proton KD: 78.4

This means that you won't lose a lot if you decide to research Voskhod, as long as you start Proton KD soon after.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

So my Soviet rocket path to reach the moon,as of 1.0 on hard difficulty:

Sputnik --> Vostok --> Voskhod (optional) --> Proton KD --> N1*

* I haven't tried UR-700

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Another test:
I researched Sputnik until it reached 80% reliability; then I open the following 3 rockets to see which one benefited the most on Sputnik's R&D.. results are surprising

Luna: 31%
Vostok: 42.5%
Molnya: 38.2%

Thus researching Luna, at least as of 1.0, should be avoided at all costs as Molnya is a better option if you want to send probes to the moon early

[Jorge_Stanbury]

More surprises... I tried again but this time I opened Vostok and Luna on a different order (Vostok 1st, Luna 2nd) and the results are inverted; now it is Vostok who got the small reliability and Luna who got the better... which doesn't make sense... is this WAD??

[N_Molson]

Hello Jorge,

About the rockets you need, well its up to you really. Personally I use extensively the R-7 Luna (a bargain, and great for uncrewed suborbital tests) and R-7 Voskhod. There might be something in the balance between R-7 Soyuz and Proton-KD, I agree, and I'll transmit the info for further investigation. Notice that the R&D results can vary from one season to the other. Also, some choices might be better than others depending of the selected difficulty level.

The Proton-KD can definitively send cosmonauts around the Moon with the Soyuz 7K-L1 Circumlunar program. But only around [:)]!

The UR-700 is "special", as it is the only rocket powerful enough to carry the LK-700 "Direct Ascent" spacecraft, which can land on the Moon on its own, without lander. Both are very expensive and hard to research, but they make the Road to the Moon a bit shorter.

One last test; does it makes sense to build Voskhod? does it impact the R&D of Soyuz or Proton KD?

I researched Sputnik until it reached 80% reliability; then I open the following 3 rockets to see which one benefited the most on Sputnik's R&D.. results are surprising.

More surprises... I tried again but this time I opened Vostok and Luna on a different order (Vostok 1st, Luna 2nd) and the results are inverted; now it is Vostok who got the small reliability and Luna who got the better... which doesn't make sense...

Notice that the game mechanic that surprises you here is what we call "technology transfers". When you research some programs, a fraction of that research is added to the starting 3% of similar programs. A few basic rules :

- The most common parts, the best is the transfer. Typically, within the R-7 or Saturn families, you'll get very good transfer rates.
- All programs in a given category (Rockets, Probes, Spacecrafts...) benefit from transfers. It means that yes, researching the R-7 'Voskhod' will have a positive impact on all the rocket programs (it also includes NASA ones if you play GSA). But again, the transfer to the R-7 'Soyuz' will be very good, moderate to the Proton K/D, and very low to say, the Saturn-V (which uses very different technologies). Notice that there are some cases of category-crossing transfers. Typically Biosatellites and Spacecraft, Rockets and space tugs (Agena, S-IVB), robotic landers and crewed landers...
- The transfers are cumulative. If you have a 85% reliable R-7 'Sputnik', a 90% reliable R-7 'Vostok', and a 87% reliable R-7 'Luna', you'll get the maximum R&D transfer if you purchase the R-7 'Voskhod' program.
- The order in which you open the programs DOES matter [;)]. When you open a program, the game checks the opened programs reliabilities, and calculates your R&D 'transfer bonus'. It is really important to take this fact into account when planning your long-term strategy.


I hope this casts some light on your questions, if not feel free to ask, and have fun ! [8D]

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Nice read on the Soyuz

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2014120 ... craft-ever