Would there be interest in a PBEM "ladder"?

[JanSorensen]

Promted by the post asking Matrix to setup a ladder I figured it might be easier if we, the players, just set up one.

I asked Paul Vebber - if there is interest we can get a sub forum dedicated to the ladder - and I am hoping we can have a couple of players made moderators for that forum only to run the ladder. That way the ladder would be right here and part of the community - it would not be relying on any one person to maintain with the risks of suddenly being discontinued that entails - and it would be free of cost for Matrix.

So, please indicate if you think you would want to report your games to such a ladder - so I know if the interest is there.

Actual procedures etc can be decided if a reasonable number of people post in the affirmative. I am not exactly familiar with such ladders but I do have some ideas. Mostly KISS.

(ladder = a place where wins/loses are recorded for games played provided both players agree to doing so)

[Harrybanana]

I would be interested in a Ladder. Primarily so I can find out who the best players are and play them. You only get better by playing the best. I posted a topic to try and find out who the best players are but only got one response. I'm not sure if this is because people are too shy to applaud other players or what.

[RTDouglas]

Jan,

I would very much be interested in being a part of this. One of the things that could make this game really take off so to speak, would be a club similar to the Axis & Allies ones which now exist. I will be starting a new job next week and it will be a 9-5 type thing, so I will now be able to put considerably more time into my online activities.

RTDouglas

[Svend Karlson]

I would participate gladly

[Ramblinman]

I would be interested as well. Probably wouldn't be much help running it, but I will happily report loss after loss [:)]

[aletoledo]

I'll join in also. I'm not sure though if "ladder" is the best way to approach this though.

I think there should be an impartial way to rank people, but I wonder who could devote enough time to maintain a ladder properly?

[Scott_WAR]

I would be very interested.

[MrQuiet]

You can count me in as interested.

-MrQuiet

[Doobious]

Count me in!

[JanSorensen]

Sofar, so good. I do think though that we need at the very least 20 interested people in order to make it worthwhile.

So, by all means try to convince some of your playing partners that this is a good idea

Opinions are most welcome.

[des06]

Jan, you can count me in, I don't have much time for helping the ladder runs, but I will report my results [:)]

[JanSorensen]

Dont worry about running the ladder. I am sure I can manage that atleast initially. For now my only worry is getting enough people to report games to make it lively and active.

[Wise01]

Sounds nice.
I only have to post the results of my Pbem games finished?
I am in.

[MikeB]

The LADDER is a good idea...but i am can guarantee you will hear about ways to make it more complicated. I am NOT a current programmer(PL/1 anyone...if there are those old enough to remember what it meant)...so cannot offer help with the programming. We might lean on matrix to establish it ...such that you or we the players can maintain it.

To NOT discourage those who lose faith early 1942/43....i suggest the following data components :
Game ID #
Scenario ID
# human players in game
start date
end date
Player 1 name/ID
Player 2 name/ID
Player 3 name/ID
Player 4 name/ID
email address/email messages can be ascertained via Matrix WAW web.
Game turn end(year-season-player turn)
Who initiated surrender if BEFORE end of scenario
Country "x" controlled by player 1
Country "y" controlled by player 2
Country "w" controlled by player 3
Country "z" controlled by player 4
Final score of game

I am uncertain if or how to address the announcement of games in progress. I think matrix AAR is appropriate for such...but identifying your opponent has some 6 other games might be of interest.

I would be willing to help with maintaining the records in EXCEL spreadsheet format. Updating to be done once per week.

As you-Jan, I have no experience with game ladders. Well, other than to know that i feel inadequate participating or being recognized on such.

Mike B

[Scott_WAR]

I think some serious thought may need to go into balancing the game some before it can be taken as a serious ladder or club game. The game has to be balanced before it will have any success in a ladder. As people play "competitve" games, they are not going to accept the fact that the axis is almost always going to lose. Unless the current AV is used, then its too easy for the axis to win, without the game ever really getting started.

[JanSorensen]

There is no requirement that "rated" games has to be played with any particular set of rules so nothing keeps people from using house rules, +supply or whatever. Infact, that is a great way to play a competitive game. Both sides bid for Germany - the player that bids the least +supply gets to play Germany. It does work best with hidden bids I suppose.

That said - lets keep the balance debate in its own thread please and stick to hopefully getting a ladder running in this one

[Scott_WAR]

You will find that balance is going to be a huge issue for ladder or rated play. But instead lets discuss the rules. Rated play, or ladder play, requires a set ruleset, to keep the playing field fair. If I rise to the top of the ladder, or have the highest rate, and it is done by beating people whom I have convinced to give me +50 supply per turn, is going to be meaningless and unfair to anyone playing a more "fair" game with no supply help. Casual play is casual play, rated play is rated play. Casual games, using any rules, and not what is considered "fair and balanced" can be found in the opponents wanted forum. A club, ladder or whatever, is supposed to be for "serious" games, which require a set of rules, and ideally is a "fair and balanced" game. Anything less would defeat the whole purpose of keeping rates or track of wins and losses. This doesnt even get into the issues of dealing with people wanting to play but not being able to agree upon the rules to be used.


The bidding of extra supply to play as axis is probably going to be the best way to go, but not a hidden bid. In a similiar club I am in the lowest rated player makes the first bid. The higher rated player either accepts the bid, and lets the lower rated player play as axis with the extra supply he bid, or makes a lower bid. If he makes a lower bid, the lower rated player may bid lower or allow the higher rated player to play as axis. This continues until either player is not willing to bid lower than their opponent.

[JanSorensen]

That works too - hidden or auction bidding both work obviously. Infact I would say that anything the two opponents can agree upon works

Obviously someone can cheat the system if they want - just make up opponents and beat them over and over.- Hence I am not worried terribly about making a perfect system.

Luckily we wont be playing for large cash prizes or get hugely popular with the women for being the top god in WaW

Anyway, for now I hope to just get a reasonable number of people to indicate interest in the concept then I will draft a set of "rules" for the ladder. For now I prefer if we keep this thread for showing interest though lest we muddle the waters with arguing details. By all means do make another thread to debate the details if you wish - I personally prefer to wait till 20 people have show interest.

[Forwarn45]

Luckily we wont be playing for large cash prizes or get hugely popular with the women for being the top god in WaW

hehe, that is true Jan. I am interested in a ladder. In fact, I made a general post to this effect some time ago and got one - maybe two responses. Glad to hear there is more interest now!

[larizona55]

Count me in....

Ladders not perfect, but a good way to play.

Larry