Marder II stock has wrong gun.

[spellir74]

PzC:K stock Marder II has the captured F22 76mm gun (renamed by Germans PAK 36-39r). The Marder II had the German 75mm Pak40.

Maybe this was purposefully done by the PzC devs, since only one Marder II is offered by stock. Maybe it's an 'oversight'.

At any rate new Marder files are in the 'mod' sub forum, "Marder Mods" thread. One file is the changed stock Marder II file.

[spellir74]

My notes on marders culled from various sources. Note higher types were sometimes made and deployed earlier. Note not all vehicles in all theaters...

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(When understanding Third Reich vehicles, look at bogies first.)

Marder all = ZF3×8 telescopic sight; 2,812 built, 4/42 - 5/44 (till end); '43 theory- Pzjg Abt: 51 Marder II per.
{Martens}

-Marder I... = come after Marder II; Pak40 + French (open top)...

.FCM = 10 built
.Hotckiss = 24 (to 60) built; MG 34 carried
.Lorraine 37L = 170 built, 7-8/42 (till end -6 left); 5mm to 12mm; Ost first, France
'Lorraine schlepper(f)'

-Marder II = MkII (open top) + Pak40; 7/42-6/43- 576, '43-'44- 75= 651 built (till end); bulk to Russ; FlsJg Feld, SP PzJg Abt; 5-30mm

(Marder II50 = Pak38L60 (5cm); few built)

-Marder IID 'LaS 76' = MkIID (open top) + Pak36-39 (some no Muz brk); 201 built, 4-6/42 (2/44 removed); 1 SS D. France, Case Blau PzD & PzGRn; LW.HGoering/PzJg Abt ('43 surrender, Tunisia); MG 34 carried; 5-30mm; hi profile; vari supstr.

-PzJg 38 (most numerous sfPAK; till 45)
Marder III = P38 (open top) + Pak36-39; 363 built, (debut 12/41 Afrika) 7-11/42- 66 [15PzD./33 & 39 PzJg (vs Matilda)]; SS PzK Karkov, most; hi profile, 10-50mm, 15mm armor; MG mount

H mid = P38 (open top) + Pak40/3 L/46; 11/42- 243, 4/43- 175 = 418 built; lower profile; Wehr, LW.HG/ Fld PzJg Abt (43 Tunisia), SS LeibS -much action; 4/44- 18 to slovak; MG37 mount; 8-50mm armor (sIG 38H chass)

M late = P38 + Pak40/3 L/46; gun to rear; 5/43-5/44 (phase out)- 975 built (2 types) [350 still @ 2/45]; 'UnterNehm Axis'[Occup of Italy] (more SP than Tanks), Normandy; MG34 carried; 8-20mm, sloped; low profile. (sIG 38M chass)

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: spellir74
-Marder IID 'LaS 76' = MkIID (open top) + Pak36-39 (some no Muz brk); 210 built, 4-6/42 (2/44 removed); 1 SS D. France, Case Blau PzD & PzGRn; LW.HGoering/PzJg Abt ('43 surrender, Tunisia); MG 34 carried; 5-30mm; hi profile; vari supstr.

I've never seen it called that before (Marder IIID) for LaS 762 (Sd Kfz 132) but that's a good name for it.
My refrence shows 201 built.

When the models are actually made the data will be re-evaluated.

[spellir74]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

ORIGINAL: spellir74
-Marder IID 'LaS 76' = MkIID (open top) + Pak36-39 (some no Muz brk); 210 built, 4-6/42 (2/44 removed); 1 SS D. France, Case Blau PzD & PzGRn; LW.HGoering/PzJg Abt ('43 surrender, Tunisia); MG 34 carried; 5-30mm; hi profile; vari supstr.

I've never seen it called that before (Marder IIID) for LaS 762 (Sd Kfz 132) but that's a good name for it.
My refrence shows 201 built.

When the models are actually made the data will be re-evaluated.

Marder IID = PIID [with small-Tiger like bogies] + Pak39r)
Was called that by [Brit?] documentary about German SPs. I saw it on you tube(search 'assault guns' or similar).

Might indeed be 201 built. I might have typed it wrong. I destroyed the original notes. (I wonder what ACTUNG PANZER says.)

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I wonder why my notes for Mard III early said "debut in 12/41 (Afrika)", when all other sources say spring '42 begins all marder series. I need to dig about that. Also, actually I never heard Marder IIIs as a group called PzJG 38s (for the p38 chassis). Need to check that too.

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What say ye about the assertion "76mm F22 is wrong for vehicle it is applied to (Marder II)"? Are you in agreement?

How much does changing it to 75mm pak40 effect _STOCK_ game-play for PBEM? Just wondering out loud, since it is a stock-value over write (and both players might not mod it). (I use stock game --at least stock unit values-- for all PBEM. But eventually patches and upgrades are going to have to address user created 'fixes' [mods].)

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Howja like my Marder III M? Looks passable with the stock lorraine applied (except for front blister).

You know whats a silly thing? "PII L": staggard IID-like bogies with small PIII-like turret. "heavy armoured PzSpahWagon for pioneers".

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: spellir74
What say ye about the assertion "76mm F22 is wrong for vehicle it is applied to (Marder II)"? Are you in agreement?

yes.

ORIGINAL: spellir74
How much does changing it to 75mm pak40 effect _STOCK_ game-play for PBEM? Just wondering out loud, since it is a stock-value over write (and both players might not mod it). (I use stock game --at least stock unit values-- for all PBEM. But eventually patches and upgrades are going to have to address user created 'fixes' [mods].)

No Marders in PCK. There is one scenario I remember from WS that has 3 in it.
If both you and your opponent change it before the game no problem.
Actually I can't tell what the game model is of. It kinda looks like a Wespe.

It's to note that you did catch that it was the F22 L51.5 used in these and not the ZiS-3 L42.
There is an error in Wikipedia which says the ZiS-3 is L51.5. As such many other games
continue this error.

[spellir74]

Regarding amount of Marder IID (las76)...

Other sources do say '201' Marder IID built.

I'm going to edit the above Marder sheet (here and in the other thread where I posted that sheet).

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I like to clarify that when I said above to "search 'assualt guns' on you tube", I didn't mean that marders were Assualt Guns. They're not! (vulnerable) (It is overwatch weapon.) I simply was searchig for assualt guns when I came across the documentary that talked about Marders. I was just giving the interested my leads to trace.

[Mobius]

I have to agree, the Marder II should have the 75mm/L46 gun on it.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

I have to agree, the Marder II should have the 75mm/L46 gun on it.

Yup.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)