Hedgehog of Piepsk v1.0 ready

[rickier65]

I've attached a zip file with v1.0 of this scenario.

The zip file is in JSGME format, so if youre not using that mod enabler tool, you will need to manually place the files in their proper locations.

Unzip the attachment into the JSGME MODS folder in PCK directory. This scenario also installs files into the media/mods/SAF_Biffa and media/mods/SAF_Biffa/Industrial directory, as well as Editor directory.

This scenario is a reproduction of the original Squad Leader Scenario # 4, of the same name. It is a winter scenario that comes with a new map. It is an Infantry only scenario, and is a Russian attack on a German held village.

I have not made a template for the map yet, but will work on that while I wait for feedback. I'll release template with any revisions to the scenario so that the map can be used in Random games.

I'd appreciate any feedback!

Thanks,
Rick

EDIT: Uploaded new version of Scenario with revised breifing and it only includes the scenario. For the Piepsk map you need to download the Map and Template Piepsk.

[Mraah]

THANKS RICK!!

I loaded it up ... very pretty SL map with natural looking hills.

Well done!

Rob

[junk2drive]

Tried it. It works fine with JSGME. Nice briefing and map.
 
I'm not a boardgamer and have no patience. Don't know about moving such a long distance.

[Stridor]

Rick,

Congrats on your first map. Looks great. ASL but not too hexified.

For your next map how about autogening some dodads [;)] You should be able to do that pretty fast now you have the basic map making skills worked out.

Checked out the scenario. Looks hard for the russain player, I am surprised you got a marginal vic even as the designer [:D], which makes me think that it may be too hard ???

Regards

S.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Stridor

Rick,

Congrats on your first map. Looks great. ASL but not too hexified.

For your next map how about autogening some dodads [;)] You should be able to do that pretty fast now you have the basic map making skills worked out.

Checked out the scenario. Looks hard for the russain player, I am surprised you got a marginal vic even as the designer [:D], which makes me think that it may be too hard ???

Regards

S.

Thanks!

Yes - I wouldn't mind adding some doodads, and a few other things as well. But if I didn't get something out I'm afriad I'd never stop fiddling with the map!

I'm hoping at least a few folks will try it out and I can get some idea if its too hard or not. I'm not a very good player, so I though If I got a marginal victory, then most others would win easy. (So I actually tweaked the victory pts a little more in the German's favor) . Might be a bit tough then, but there's always the easy-hard modifer too.

I can do a little more tweaking with VPs if it proves too out of whack.

I'm hoping you or Rob (Mraah) might take a look at the way I set in textures - not sure if it was very efficient. Works ok on my desktop - but my laptop sure struggles with the scenario.

Thanks for looking at it! Working on a template now.

Rick

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Tried it. It works fine with JSGME. Nice briefing and map.

I'm not a boardgamer and have no patience. Don't know about moving such a long distance.

Thanks for checking it out. With no armor, it might not be most folks cup of tea.

I thought it might apeal to some of the old timers who remember playing Squad Leader 30 years ago. And surprisingly, this system seems to give a very simialr feel for play, which is a good thing.

The Russians can be given their marching orders pretty easily since they only have 4 formations. Adjustments can be made as soon as they have contact.

Rick

[junk2drive]

My comment was not directed at your effort, rather at boardgame conversions to PC games. I've seen a few for CM too. Sitting around a table with friends, moving counters for hours, is not what I want to do on my PC late in the evening. Some people seem to like that sort of thing though.

[Stridor]

Rick,

In terms of performance it is really pretty simple.

The more models on the map and the more texture layers you define the harder the video card as to work.

Regards

S.

[Erik Rutins]

Outstanding, Rick. I'll take a look at it, I do recall playing the original SL scenario a long time ago.

[RyanCrierie]

This scenario really does drive home the necessity of a "fast forward to end of phase" or increasing the "time acceleration" to something higher than 3.0x for PzK. I don't mind long marches as long as I can skip over them relatively fast...

[rickier65]

I've started working on some enhancements to this scenario. Rob (Mraah) provided me a set of rock wall models. I've started placing them per the original SL map.

Rob, they seemed a bit high to me compared to the building models so I sank them about .3 meters into the ground (this makes them about 2.5 feet high or there abouts). They still look a little high when, but I see they no longer block LOS. Which may not be a bad thing. ( I really didn't want them to block LOS anyway) If I recall LOS is based on a low ray and a high ray, I'm hoping that the low ray is blocked which may give some minor benefit to someone behind the wall.

I also gave the models the "has Height" attribute. Now infantry climbls over the wall when given a movement order.

Thanks Rob!

My plan is to finish adding stone walls, then finish the template (already placed and named objectives and AT and AP mine fields.

Then I'll incorporate other comments and release the revised version of Hedgehog. I'll release the template separately in the event some folks don't want this map added to the pool of available random maps.

Thanks!
Rick

EDIT: I just looked at this screenshot, it makes the wall look a lot larger than it is, not sure if its because of the zoom in or angle. The wall looks large in game, but not usually this oversized!

[rickier65]

I've put stone walls in most of the map now per the original SL maps. I'm posting a pic of the most densley walled area (west end of town).

I'm considering replacing the stone wall between the two buildings in foreground with wire fence. It looks like the walls are getting too dense in this area.

I'd appreciate any feedback though.

Rick

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Rick
Rob, they seemed a bit high to me compared to the building models so I sank them about .3 meters into the ground (this makes them about 2.5 feet high or there abouts). They still look a little high when, but I see they no longer block LOS. Which may not be a bad thing. ( I really didn't want them to block LOS anyway) If I recall LOS is based on a low ray and a high ray, I'm hoping that the low ray is blocked which may give some minor benefit to someone behind the wall.

You may not want to "bury" them into the ground. My testing showed that it might not block LOS at all because the "Y" value of the ground isn't the same as the "Y" value of the object. I tested this by creating a field of buried trees (to simulate brush) where the trunk is sunk in the ground, the result was is it ended up not blocking LOS.

I also gave the models the "has Height" attribute. Now infantry climbls over the wall when given a movement order.

Stay away from HASHEIGHT ... please see my post in the tech support thread ... tm.asp?m=1944240
Hasheight will lock the game up (in my testing) because it appears the AI will move the unit to a location that places it inside the object, ignoring the new Y value for the object.

Note : I PM'd you about not being able to select the wall in SE ... the HasHeight is on ... again, stay away from hasheight UNLESS you plan on making the object impassable or tagged as an obstacle, ie can't move any unit on top. This is why I elected to create a "breach" in the wall ... hence my new, smaller versions of the wall with notches that I sent you.

Also note ... from my testing, the wall will not provide hull down for vehicles ... I don't know why but I'm thinking that the hull down routine may not be considering the new object as "blocked-by-terrain"(location damage) because the object (X model) is seperate from the terrainX mesh. Hull down has been known to happen only with regards to the blockage caused by the terrainX mesh ... again, from my testing. So, even thouth the object may be tagged as "hasheight" and LOS will say it's blocked by the ground it still doesn't appear to function properly when hull down is considered for damage location.

EDIT NOTE : Now, bridges having HEIGHT seems to be another subject ... these work for some reason [&:]... so, anyway ... if you use hasheight and it works then by all means, it works ... if the game starts locking on you then you'll know the cause.

EDIT NOTE #2 : Ok, I have a theory about HASHEIGHT and why bridges don't cause problems while walls would. As an example, open the KHARKOV_L1B map in scene editor ... note the bridge is called L1B_terrainBRIDGE ... and, note the two previous children also contain the term "terrain" in name. My theory is that the object name has to contain the term "terrain" for this to work (ie, AI movement and hull down) ... also note, the NodeID is 1 (may not be a factor).

So, before we play with hasheight anymore I want to try some more tests and see if this is true.

Rob

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Mraah

You may not want to "bury" them into the ground. My testing showed that it might not block LOS at all because the "Y" value of the ground isn't the same as the "Y" value of the object. I tested this by creating a field of buried trees (to simulate brush) where the trunk is sunk in the ground, the result was is it ended up not blocking LOS.

If I don't bury them, they appear much too high (I know they aren't, I looked at the Y value and they're only 1 high - I assume thats 1 meter) - but they still look high, even burried by .3 Y they seem too high, and yes - they don't seem to block LOS now.

ORIGINAL: Mraah
Stay away from HASHEIGHT ... please see my post in the tech support thread ... tm.asp?m=1944240
Hasheight will lock the game up (in my testing) because it appears the AI will move the unit to a location that places it inside the object, ignoring the new Y value for the object.

I recall the thread - though I didn't before. But I left the wall as impassable, when I did a quick test (see the screen shot) the Infantry squad climbed over the wall - but I haven't tried to see what happens with AI. I'll check that out.

Also note ... from my testing, the wall will not provide hull down for vehicles ... I don't know why but I'm thinking that the hull down routine may not be considering the new object as "blocked-by-terrain"(location damage) because the object (X model) is seperate from the terrainX mesh. Hull down has been known to happen only with regards to the blockage caused by the terrainX mesh ... again, from my testing. So, even thouth the object may be tagged as "hasheight" and LOS will say it's blocked by the ground it still doesn't appear to function properly when hull down is considered for damage location.

EDIT NOTE : Now, bridges having HEIGHT seems to be another subject ... these work for some reason [&:]... so, anyway ... if you use hasheight and it works then by all means, it works ... if the game starts locking on you then you'll know the cause.

EDIT NOTE #2 : Ok, I have a theory about HASHEIGHT and why bridges don't cause problems while walls would. As an example, open the KHARKOV_L1B map in scene editor ... note the bridge is called L1B_terrainBRIDGE ... and, note the two previous children also contain the term "terrain" in name. My theory is that the object name has to contain the term "terrain" for this to work (ie, AI movement and hull down) ... also note, the NodeID is 1 (may not be a factor).

I"ll try to do a little testing as well. I'm not sure about LOS issue. Seems like a unit behind a stone wall should have LOS to a unit outside the wall, and unit outside the wall should have LOS to a unit adjacent to the stone wall.

The LOS should be degraded, but not totally blocked.

In any event I have the completed map with Stone walls now. But I may put it on back burner now while I do some testing.

Thanks!
Rick

[rickier65]

I did a quick test using the Piepsk Scen and the piepsk map with stone walls. It looks like the AI was able to climb over the walls. I caught this one in mid execution. The AI is controlling the squad climbing the wall. AI also had couple of squads before this at this wall, and later in the game, a AI squad climbed a wall on east side of town as it deployed to assault the final objective.

I think I'll move forward with creating a template. I may create two, one with stone walls, and one without. But first I'll just carry on with the map at hand.

I probably won't release an update to Piepsk though until I get feedback on whether it's grossly unbalanced or has some other issue to be fixed.

Thanks for taking the time on these walls for this too!

Rick

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Rick

I did a quick test using the Piepsk Scen and the piepsk map with stone walls. It looks like the AI was able to climb over the walls. I caught this one in mid execution. The AI is controlling the squad climbing the wall. AI also had couple of squads before this at this wall, and later in the game, a AI squad climbed a wall on east side of town as it deployed to assault the final objective.

I think I'll move forward with creating a template. I may create two, one with stone walls, and one without. But first I'll just carry on with the map at hand.

I probably won't release an update to Piepsk though until I get feedback on whether it's grossly unbalanced or has some other issue to be fixed.

Thanks for taking the time on these walls for this too!

Rick

Rick,

I just finished up so more testing myself ... HasHeight works for infantry BETTER than it does for vehicles (if not, only for infantry). So, you may want to check your walls for vehicle behavior ... (my vehicles get stuck half way up and causes the lockup).

If you'd rather be safe ... Paint the area around the walls with tank obstacle.

EDIT NOTE : Hasheight does work (blocks LOS) even if you bury the wall ... which is good news too! (as long as you don't bury it too much, obviously [:)])
EDIT NOTE #2 : By the way, it is pretty cool to have the walls block LOS and suddenly see hordes of infantry come barreling over the wall about 20 meters from your house!! .... Where'd they come from !!! [X(]

Rob

[rickier65]

OK

Tried some Tanks to see the result. I was able to order German Tanks across the wall. Two of them went over, one routed around the wall. I assum that means the comp computed that around the wall was quicker than over. Which is ok.

I placed some Russian AI tanks inside a walled area with object outside a hundered meters or so. Set a German sniper with hold fire order on a hill to observe.

The AI routed the tanksbackwards to leave the walled area though an opening, then the last tank for some reason went ahead and "climbed" the one end. It's possible my impassible terrain in that area wasn't extended quite far enough, but in any event the behavior was fine.

I haven't checked out half tracks or other vehicles. But it seems to be working ok.

I think I'll call it good -- when thenext module comes out, maybe they'll incorporate a few more "urban" fighting rules and the treatment of walls will be addressed then.

When I get the template ready, I'd appreciate it if you would do a few tests as well, and if the walls create problems address them then.

In pic below the three tanks were initially tucked into the wall pocket, the AI routed them back to the opening. THe scrn shot was taken as the last tank was coming down from the top of the wall.


Thanks!
Rick

[rickier65]

I've replaced the walls with new walls. Mraah (Rob) was kind enough to provide me a customized set of stone walls that seem to fit this scenario better. I'm posting a pic of the east end of town, (tried to match the POV from pic in post 12).

I like the way these look.

I still want to do some retesting of the "wall Pocket" to make sure still works the same. But I've gone ahead and replaced all the walls on the map now. I like the way it looks with these new walls

After I finish the template, I"ll post the new map, as well as the revised scnenario. I'm hoping I'll have some feedback on balance by then. But if not, thats ok.

Thanks for the wall Rob!

Rick

[Mraah]

Looks good Rick!

By the way, I tested those 1-meter tall walls and they will definately block for hulldown if you ground them "g-key".

Rob

[rickier65]

Well,

No joy here. Started running tests - first pass through the game froze. Rebooted system, rechecked map, found one pixel that I thought might be culprit. started running. German in wall pocket. First oreders phase went fine. Sdk 222 routed back through the opening and headed for the woods.

Second orders phase both truck and Sdk 250 along with tanks are still inside wall. about third of way through the "simulating turn" process the game freezes.

Repeated about couple of times sometimes freeze happens first simulating orders.

I may have to restore my backup, and slowly incorporate changes, maybe the wall pocket to start and test it out before moving forward.

This will delay thing a bit.

(on a good note - I've continued working on template, I've done the easy stuff, now need to place Inf, Armor, and Transport. The template is getting pretty cluttered already.

Sorry,
Rick