v1.0.122 Observations

[MjH]

Just finished a game under the new patch set -- Default Canadian league, rules and playbook, coach mode.

First the good....

- The kicking game is now fun to watch. No more predictable, up-the-middle, no-variation-in-distance kicks. Punts and kickoffs are going left, right and up the middle, with varying distances. I can now control the snap on punts and field goals. I also saw successful field goals with the line of scrimmage at the 45 and 50 yard lines. The kickers could never get it that far before.

- Offensive plays seem to work better. The up-the-middle running plays that always got stuffed, now have the running backs breaking for a few yards, sometimes for 10 or more. I'm also seeing players shake off tackles, defenders shaking off blocks and quarterbacks scrambling away from trouble. Before, once a player was engaged, that seemed to be the end of it.

- I'm seeing different penalties. In the early patches, all I would see were Illegal Contact and Delay of Game penalties. Now I'm seeing a few others - Pass Interference and Facemasking to name two.

- The number of sacks are way down, the quarterbacks are avoiding tackles that they weren't able to before. Also, the incomplete/tackle result seems to be gone for good.

Now for the strangeness....

- Human controlled team has the ball, 2nd and 10 on the computer team's 24 yard line. Human calls a pass play (sorry, I don't remember which one), the pass is intercepted by the computer team. The computer player immediately fumbles the ball, recovers it, and is tackled for no run-back. Play ends, but a penalty is called -- Pass Interference against the computer team. Human team accepts the penalty. I expected to still have the ball, 1st and 10. Actual result - Computer team has the ball, 1st and 10 on the Human team's 24 yard line!!!!!!

- Two missed field goals (one by computer team, one by Human coached team) resulted in the 'Single Point' result, but no points were added to the scoreboard for either team. As well, the receiving team then scrimmaged the ball from the line of scrimmage where the field goal was attempted.

- A penalty was called against the Human team on a successful field goal by the computer team. Accepting the penalty would have resulted in a new set of downs, but the penalty was declined. The computer team took the points and kicked off.

[Breeze]

ORIGINAL: MjH

- A penalty was called against the Human team on a successful field goal by the computer team. Accepting the penalty would have resulted in a new set of downs, but the penalty was declined. The computer team took the points and kicked off.

I'm not sure that's a bug...Vince Lombardi always said that you should never take points off the board due to a penalty.

[Deltadog]

Notes on Quick play game run with .122 patch, American rules, College/highschool, league. Player skill levels have not been altered. Fun N Gun playbook.

1. Punts going off side of kicker’s foot appear corrected. However virtually all punts in game watched went toward side line. Granted that they went down field as they should, but out of all in game one went down the middle of the field.
2. Kick off tend to all go toward the side line. During this game one went down the middle, 2 went to the sideline and were returned, and the rest went out of bounds. Most I see on TV appear to go down the middle.
4. One punt was returned right up the middle for near 80 yards and a touchdown. This was fun to watch. However at the end of the play, the game reported a 15 yard return. It was more than 15 yards from point of kick, original line of scrimmage, and point of reception. Regardless from where the game measured the return from it was wrong.
(See screen shot below)
5. QB seemed to run less than with the last patch. Passing percentage was not as good as with yesterdays patch. Perhaps because the league setting was college/HS instead of Pro.
6. Watched game from above and on the one play with motion, the man in motion clearly ran across the field and then back in from of the line of scrimmage.
7. QB rolled left then ran in place for several seconds, reversed field and was sacked.
8. On one play it was 2nd and 8. Offense ran ball for 3 yards, clearly not reaching the line to gain, but was awarded a first down at the spot of the tackle.
9. One punt play which started from the defense 42 resulted in a kick to the coffin corner, which bounced on the field and clearly went out of bounds on the 3 yard line. It was spotted on the 20.
10. On a second punt play the ball went out of bounds on the 7 yard line. The return man stood on the sideline and watched the cheerleaders. His team ran in place in the center of the field and the kicking team stood in front of them and watched. I hit escape, chose look at current stats and the returned to game. The game continued with the ball spotted on the 20 instead of the 7.
11. In second game watched the first 2 KO were strange. Kicker appeared to miss the ball. Someone on his team picked up the ball (off the tee?) and the first time fumbled and the receiving team got the ball at the spot of the kick off. The second time he was tackled and the kicking team got the ball at the spot of the kick off>

[Shaggyra]

11. In second game watched the first 2 KO were strange. Kicker appeared to miss the ball. Someone on his team picked up the ball (off the tee?) and the first time fumbled and the receiving team got the ball at the spot of the kick off. The second time he was tackled and the kicking team got the ball at the spot of the kick off>

I've seen this with punters also. If you look I'll bet you find that the team has no actual kicker. I know that if a team has no punter the same thing will happen.

[Magnum357]

ORIGINAL: MjH

- I also saw successful field goals with the line of scrimmage at the 45 and 50 yard lines. The kickers could never get it that far before.

I actually sort of disagree with this complaint. I have been noticing in the past Beta builds that Kickers are not getting a lot of distance in there Feildgoal Place Kicks, even when his Kick Strength Rating was 90+. I haven't tested this much yet, but I don't understand why people complain about Kickers having good distance in the game. You say that your Kicker is able to Placekick the ball from 45 to 50 yard line, that means your Kicker is roughly making a 55 to 60 yard kick. In the NFL, only 3 Kickers have ever made a 63 yard kick in the history of the league, but that does not mean that all other Place Kicks have been shorter then 63 yards. I have seen quite a few kickers in the NFL over the years able to kick a 60+ yard feild attempt, but usually miss at that distance (either wide Right or wide Left). Just because only 3 Kickers in the history of the NFL have made a 63 yard attempt DOES NOT mean that all Place Kicks have been at a shorter distance.

I think that if you have a Kicker with a Kick Strength of 99, he should easily be able to kick a 60+ yard attempt. Now actually getting it through the uprights is dependent on his Feildgoal accruacy and other factors (like if the Defense is able to get close to his kick or actually block it).

P.S. After reading your post, I was assuming you were complaining about Feildgoals getting that kind of distance. But regardless, I still think a Kicker with Kick Strength of 90+ should have excellent ability to get a Place kick 55 to 60+ yards.

[Deltadog]

ORIGINAL: Shaggyra

11. In second game watched the first 2 KO were strange. Kicker appeared to miss the ball. Someone on his team picked up the ball (off the tee?) and the first time fumbled and the receiving team got the ball at the spot of the kick off. The second time he was tackled and the kicking team got the ball at the spot of the kick off>

I've seen this with punters also. If you look I'll bet you find that the team has no actual kicker. I know that if a team has no punter the same thing will happen.

The two teams came from a league I have set up using SEC teams. To be fair to all teams, all are set on computer controlled. I let the computer control stocking of the rosters by draft and allowed the computer to set the depth charts. The result is that there is a kicker. Since I have not gotten into player atributes yet, I do not know if that kicker's numbers come into play or not. Regardless of the reason, it must be a bug in the game to allow the kicking team to regain possession as it were an onside kick when if fact the ball went no where. See the attached for kickers numbers.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: MjH
First the good....

Thanks, we have come a ways since release thanks to David's hard work and the help we've had from the community in reporting issues.

- Human controlled team has the ball, 2nd and 10 on the computer team's 24 yard line. Human calls a pass play (sorry, I don't remember which one), the pass is intercepted by the computer team. The computer player immediately fumbles the ball, recovers it, and is tackled for no run-back. Play ends, but a penalty is called -- Pass Interference against the computer team. Human team accepts the penalty. I expected to still have the ball, 1st and 10. Actual result - Computer team has the ball, 1st and 10 on the Human team's 24 yard line!!!!!!

This should be a fun one to try to duplicate... [;)]

Thanks for your reports.

Regards,

- Erik

[MjH]

ORIGINAL: Magnum357

ORIGINAL: MjH

- I also saw successful field goals with the line of scrimmage at the 45 and 50 yard lines. The kickers could never get it that far before.

I actually sort of disagree with this complaint.

[...snip...]

P.S. After reading your post, I was assuming you were complaining about Feildgoals getting that kind of distance. But regardless, I still think a Kicker with Kick Strength of 90+ should have excellent ability to get a Place kick 55 to 60+ yards.

I would disagree too. That's because it's not a complaint. [:)] It was under the heading "First the good....". [:)]

My point was that prior to the current patch, field goal kickers seem to be under-powered, as you pointed out. In the games I played with the previous versions, I think the longest field goal I saw was in the neighbourhood of 35 yards or so. Both kickers have a 90+ kicking strength, and based on how far the kicks traveled after going through the goal posts, I think 60+ yard field goals are possible.

Just to pick a nit, I'm playing Canadian rules, so in a live game, those two field goals would have been 52 and 57 yards in length, respectively. In MF, the placeholder sets up closer to the line of scrimmage, so it looks like they would have been 48 and 53 yards.

[MjH]

ORIGINAL: MjH

- Human controlled team has the ball, 2nd and 10 on the computer team's 24 yard line. Human calls a pass play (sorry, I don't remember which one), the pass is intercepted by the computer team. The computer player immediately fumbles the ball, recovers it, and is tackled for no run-back. Play ends, but a penalty is called -- Pass Interference against the computer team. Human team accepts the penalty. I expected to still have the ball, 1st and 10. Actual result - Computer team has the ball, 1st and 10 on the Human team's 24 yard line!!!!!!

This should be a fun one to try to duplicate... [;)]

Yeah, that was my first thought as well. Well, actually it was my second thought.
My first thought was something along the lines of "What the ....????" [:)] Actually, I blame it on those crappy CFL referees. [:)]

[Deltadog]

One more observation for information purposes as it does not seem to affect anything.

Both games I watched were played under american rules with Rouge NOT selected. During the game there was no missed field goals and no mention of rouge and no points added. However in reading the game log, each time a FG was kicked there was a log entry, as follows,

[Rouge scored by WENDLER for 1 point(s).

FIELDGOAL vs FG BLOCK

[Shaggyra]

ORIGINAL: Deltadog

One more observation for information purposes as it does not seem to affect anything.

Both games I watched were played under american rules with Rouge NOT selected. During the game there was no missed field goals and no mention of rouge and no points added. However in reading the game log, each time a FG was kicked there was a log entry, as follows,

[Rouge scored by WENDLER for 1 point(s).

FIELDGOAL vs FG BLOCK

Game log? Where's the game log?

[Deltadog]

ORIGINAL: Shaggyra

ORIGINAL: Deltadog

One more observation for information purposes as it does not seem to affect anything.

Both games I watched were played under american rules with Rouge NOT selected. During the game there was no missed field goals and no mention of rouge and no points added. However in reading the game log, each time a FG was kicked there was a log entry, as follows,

[Rouge scored by WENDLER for 1 point(s).

FIELDGOAL vs FG BLOCK

Game log? Where's the game log?

In the folder named Gamelogs. It will be a text file named something like, 1-1-UK vs UA.txt. No idea what the 1-1 means, but the UK vs UA in this example represents University of Kentucky vs University of Arkansas. UK & UA were the short names for the team given when the league was created.

The entries are not as complete as they were in FbPro, but do give the same basic information that you see on the screen after each play.

[Shaggyra]

The entries are not as complete as they were in FbPro, but do give the same basic information that you see on the screen after each play.

All I get are stats from the game. No play data

[Breeze]

In MF, the placeholder sets up closer to the line of scrimmage, so it looks like they would have been 48 and 53 yards.

I'm working on fixing this. I have an 11-man kick formation which snaps the ball the correct distance; when I get the others done I'll upload them somewhere.

How far back does the ball get snapped on kicks in the CFL? How about indoor? In American rules it's about 7 yards.

[MjH]

ORIGINAL: Breeze
How far back does the ball get snapped on kicks in the CFL? How about indoor? In American rules it's about 7 yards.

Yes, in Canada (at all levels, CFL, CIS, Junior, etc.) it's pretty much the same (~7 yards).

[Gman1025]

Shaggy,
Do you only do sim games? All my sim games are stats only in the game logs.

[Magnum357]

ORIGINAL: Breeze

I'm working on fixing this. I have an 11-man kick formation which snaps the ball the correct distance; when I get the others done I'll upload them somewhere.

How far back does the ball get snapped on kicks in the CFL? How about indoor? In American rules it's about 7 yards.

Breeze, to the best of my knowlege, 7 yards beheind the LOS is standard for most kickers. But I have heard of a few instances where some kickers prefer to be slightly further away from the LOS or closer. A few kickers out ther might like 8 yards behind the LOS ( to help prevent blocks) and some actually try to attempt at 6 yards behind the LOS (to give themselves that extra yard of distance). A couple of yards may not seem like much to the average person, but for Kickers, it can mean a whole lot to there completion percentages. Especially for NFL Kickers.