A Bit OT: CV Question for Tankerace

[GaryChildress]

This is a question for Tankerace and I apologize that it only indirectly involves WPO but I don't know where else to turn for concrete answers.

IIRC you mentioned something about having given consideration to incorporating in WPO the ability to convert large AKs into CVs. I'm trying to do the same thing right now in a WitP mod (make it so that large AKs can convert into CVEs) and am wondering if anything strange will happen when the CVEs show up after 180 days. I've noticed some slightly strange behavior involving assigning CVs to certain slots in the database. For instance, it appears that assigning a CV to a slot below a BB will cause the BB to appear before the CV when you place the cursor over the TF. Instead of showing up on top with its planes beside it, the CV will show up next to the BB with its planes beside it. It appears that the order in which ship types show up in a TF when you place the cursor over it is dependent upon the order in which they show up in the ship database, hence the reason WitP and WPO place CVs at the top of the order for each side. At bottom is a picture of what I'm talking about.

I'm just wondering if there might be any other unforseen problems with converting AKs to CVEs which you may have encountered while WPO was in the works. [&:]

Thanks for any help. [:)]

Gary

[Tankerace]

I had given thoughts to two probes of attack. The first was large AKs to CVEs, by way of conversions, the other to making a ship upgrade, in the sense that if it is a CA in 4/22, it can be a CV in 1/23, with bi monthly upgrades (where after the first, the ship is given null ratings and a speed of one, so it has to sit in drydock for the 9 months).

However, I had to scrub both plans.

Basically, CVs of any time can only appear in the first slos (I forget to what number). Now, if the CV is after that slot, it will launch its aircraft like a scout, but they are not counted as CVs and will not launch mass coordinated attacks. I am not fully sure of the reasoning (as scout planes can make attacks), but in the early stages of WPO, as a mod, I had CVs in the lower slots (to represent BBs being the dominate type), they would not launch strikes, even though 2 opposing CVs were in the same hex. When I moved the ships to slots under 2100 (For the Allies), they functioned normally. So this would negate AK conversions (Provided, of course, that all the AKs eligible for conversion would be above the necessary slots, which is impossible thanks to 1,000s of ships).

As to manual conversions, as in my original scheme of having a certain class that can convert to CVs, is entirely possible. Say you want 50 ships eligible for conversion, you simply place them in the slots after the CVs, but before the BBs. Then, you create a class, such as:

Large AK (CV), denoting it can be converted to a CV. Lets assign it a date of 12/41. Now lets say you want these ships to not be converted to CVs before 1/43. For a 180 day converion, that is 6 months. So, you create 5 "dummy" classes, that are a CV type, but have 200 armor (i.e cannot be sunk but damaged in construction), no capacity, no weapons, and a 150 durability (again, to allow it to be damaged, but not sunk). You will have these classes as 2/43,3/43,4/43,5/43, and 6/43. Then, you create the actual class, with all attendant attributes you want, and label it 7/43. Here is how it plays out:

Ships "Upgrades" to immovable, unusable class in 2/43, incurrs damage. It stays the same class, but incurs damage (using repair points and what not, and with such a durability it needs a big yard to convert) each month. Everytime the damage is reduced, and a new upgrade rolls around, this keeps the ship in dock, necessitating a true to life rebuilding. Then, in 7/43, it undergoes 1 last rebuilding, whereby the ship becomes a fully fledged, usable carrier. So, the upgrade path is:

12/41 A generic type large AK, but with all ships of the class in the correct slots.
1/43 null class, high armor and durability, 1 knot speed, no capacity or weapons.
2/43 " "
3/43 " "
4/43 " "
5/43 " "
6/43 " "
7/43 Final, Useable, carrier.

This method allows a realistic 180 day conversion, but it also prevents players from abusing the system, for if say in 1/44 they decide to convert, the ship (which won't undergo a full 180 day repair) must still go through the six successive upgrades, keeping it in dock for a lengthy (at least 4 months) amount of time.

The advantage to this, in a way, is also that for Japan in 1945, if they are coverting the ships, the Allies can bomb them (Port Attack), and represent bombing of ships on the ways, a very plausible tactic.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but that is the only true way I could figure out to actually have the ships convert and be useable.

Hope that helps!

[GaryChildress]

Thanks Tankerace! That helps a lot! [:)] Saved me from some beta testing headaches and I sort of like the incremental upgrade idea. Very ingenious. In fact the incremental upgrade may solve a couple problems for the Japanese. 1) it won't add excess production to the building queue (although it will use up ship repair points) and 2) I was a little sceptical that 180 days represented a fair amount of time required to convert a merchantman into a carrier. From what I gather, the Marus which the Japanese did convert into "assualt" carriers late in the war actually took almost a year to complete in some instances (if not longer). At least this way I can extend the time frame a little if I need to.

Thanks again, [&o]

Gary

[Rysyonok]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
Basically, CVs of any time can only appear in the first slos (I forget to what number). Now, if the CV is after that slot, it will launch its aircraft like a scout, but they are not counted as CVs and will not launch mass coordinated attacks. I am not fully sure of the reasoning (as scout planes can make attacks), but in the early stages of WPO, as a mod, I had CVs in the lower slots (to represent BBs being the dominate type), they would not launch strikes, even though 2 opposing CVs were in the same hex. When I moved the ships to slots under 2100 (For the Allies), they functioned normally. So this would negate AK conversions (Provided, of course, that all the AKs eligible for conversion would be above the necessary slots, which is impossible thanks to 1,000s of ships).

Any chance to find out what exact slots are reserved for certain ships? I.e. are there any problems with aircraft-equipped BBs located in CV-intended slots?

Thanks

[GaryChildress]

Hi Tanker, many thanks for your help previously. I have one more question regarding the mod I'm working on. How did you get the French to appear in WPO? Did you have to go in and hard code things or did you simply name a file "mapiconsFR.bmp"?

In other words, if I went into WitP and renamed the mapiconsIN.bmp file (which doesn't seem to be used at all in the game) to mapiconsFR.bmp, would I be able to have French base icons or is there more to it than that? [&:]

Thanks for any help!!!! [:)]


Gary

[Tankerace]

The French appearing in WPO is a hardcoded thing done by Mike (oddly enough, a week before the release). They have their own graphics file, but as (to my knowledge) this change hasn't been retrofitted to War in the Pacific then simply adding in this file wouldn't change anything. The French in that game still default to the British icons and images. It would be something that Mike or know Joe would need to change for you in the next WitP patch.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

The French appearing in WPO is a hardcoded thing done by Mike (oddly enough, a week before the release). They have their own graphics file, but as (to my knowledge) this change hasn't been retrofitted to War in the Pacific then simply adding in this file wouldn't change anything. The French in that game still default to the British icons and images. It would be something that Mike or know Joe would need to change for you in the next WitP patch.

Thanks Tanker, I suppose I'll simply make do with what's in the game currently. If I requested such a thing in an upcoming patch I know Ron S. and a few others would have a cow. [:D]

I tried playing around with the mapiconsIN.bmp file to see if I could get it to show up in the game but haven't had any success. Looks like it may have been something from the original design that didn't make the final cut or something. [&:]

Thanks once again Tankerace!!! [&o]