Why doesn't the AI use offboard smoke artillery anymore?

[Manticore]

Hello

How come the AI doesn't use offboard smoke artillery before the 1st turn? They used to use it in the original Steel Panthers, but they don't seem to in this game.

[Alby]

You mean SP1?

I know its used in ww2 and MBT, but often fires in places  that make no sense.

[Manticore]

Yes, Steel Panthers 1. I remember it making the AI more challenging because it blocks my sight until he gets close. Was it purposely removed or does the game just not support it engine wise?

[Alby]

not sure
since SPWAW came from SP3 engine, I dont recall if the AI fired smoke in SP3.
[&:]

[Dragoon 45]

The AI will fire smoke on the first turn in assault missions, although it does not do it all the time. I have had the AI do this in computer generated battles. But that first turn seems to be the only time the AI will use smoke. I don't think I have ever seen the AI use smoke in defend, delay, or advance missions. The AI is very weak in the use of smoke.

ORIGINAL: Alby

not sure
since SPWAW came from SP3 engine, I dont recall if the AI fired smoke in SP3.
[&:]

[Alby]

maybe the AI just doesnt abuse it like we do..
[:D]

[Twotribes]

LOL, how can we abuse it, each piece has x number of smoke assigned, once it is gone no more smoke ( question? will ammo resupply units increase smoke ammo?)

[FlashfyreSP]

Smoke is not replenished by Ammo Dumps/Carriers.

We 'abuse' it by using it like the 'impenetrable wall' that the game makes it; if your unit is spotted, you 'pop smoke' and....voila'....instant force field.

Besides the gameplay issue, smoke was never issued to the soldiers in the quantities that we see in the game. This is more I think due to the game being built from the SPIII code, which was a modern-day game, and the smoke routine wasn't modified to remove the large supplies of smoke grenades to squads and patrols.

[Dragoon 45]

I agree that smoke wasn't issued in large quantities to infantry normally, but mission dependent some squads might carry 2-3 smoke grenades per man. Normally though a squad might have one or two smoke grenades that the squad leader carried. And I might add this also normal issue today in the US Army.

Smoke was used quite extensively by mortar,artillery, and armor units. Most late war US and British tanks mounted a 2" mortar in the turret roof for firing smoke, normally around 20-30 rds were carried. There are even cases in the Pacific where aircraft were used to lay a smoke screen. I am not sure how they did it, but I have seen WW II newsreels that showed it. I don't know if the AI works this way but the more smoke rounds fired into an area the thicker the smoke is, depending on wind speed and direction. I think what is needed is a graduated scale for smoke. The more smoke rds fired into a given area, the more the line of sight is blocked. A smoke grenade is not going to obscure much for a very long period of time. Smoke pots, smoke generators, and or WP rounds will lay a quite dense smoke concentration that you will be lucky to see 5 feet if you are inside it. Normal smoke rds for mortars and artillery fall in a category between grenades and smoke pots. For game play the biggest problem is the AI will not a player fire blind through the smoke. I would whole heartedly recommend that the code be changed to allow unobserved fire through smoke.

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

Smoke is not replenished by Ammo Dumps/Carriers.

We 'abuse' it by using it like the 'impenetrable wall' that the game makes it; if your unit is spotted, you 'pop smoke' and....voila'....instant force field.

Besides the gameplay issue, smoke was never issued to the soldiers in the quantities that we see in the game. This is more I think due to the game being built from the SPIII code, which was a modern-day game, and the smoke routine wasn't modified to remove the large supplies of smoke grenades to squads and patrols.

[FlashfyreSP]

ORIGINAL: Dragoon 45

I agree that smoke wasn't issued in large quantities to infantry normally, but mission dependent some squads might carry 2-3 smoke grenades per man. Normally though a squad might have one or two smoke grenades that the squad leader carried. And I might add this also normal issue today in the US Army.

Smoke was used quite extensively by mortar,artillery, and armor units. Most late war US and British tanks mounted a 2" mortar in the turret roof for firing smoke, normally around 20-30 rds were carried. There are even cases in the Pacific where aircraft were used to lay a smoke screen. I am not sure how they did it, but I have seen WW II newsreels that showed it. I don't know if the AI works this way but the more smoke rounds fired into an area the thicker the smoke is, depending on wind speed and direction. I think what is needed is a graduated scale for smoke. The more smoke rds fired into a given area, the more the line of sight is blocked. A smoke grenade is not going to obscure much for a very long period of time. Smoke pots, smoke generators, and or WP rounds will lay a quite dense smoke concentration that you will be lucky to see 5 feet if you are inside it. Normal smoke rds for mortars and artillery fall in a category between grenades and smoke pots. For game play the biggest problem is the AI will not a player fire blind through the smoke. I would whole heartedly recommend that the code be changed to allow unobserved fire through smoke.

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

Smoke is not replenished by Ammo Dumps/Carriers.

We 'abuse' it by using it like the 'impenetrable wall' that the game makes it; if your unit is spotted, you 'pop smoke' and....voila'....instant force field.

Besides the gameplay issue, smoke was never issued to the soldiers in the quantities that we see in the game. This is more I think due to the game being built from the SPIII code, which was a modern-day game, and the smoke routine wasn't modified to remove the large supplies of smoke grenades to squads and patrols.

Certainly there were mission-dependent issues of extra smoke grenades; but I am also referring to the game's propensity to give, automatically, smoke grenades to units who most likely didn't have them: Partisans, Guerillas, et al. And many nations at that time did not have smoke grenades in their national inventories; I certainly wouldn't expect every Russian squad to have a handful, nor the Chinese, or even the Dutch and Hungarian forces. Even the British didn't have a smoke grenade until the introduction of the No.77 Mk.I, WP issued in 1943.

It is unfortunate that the game designers did not make Smoke an ammo type like HE and AP, so that it could be set in the OOB Editor.

[Zardoz]

For the Wehrmacht, too, smoke grenades were no standard equipment of the infantry.
 
I, myself, used them one time during my training in the modern German army...