optional rules

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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RE: optional rules

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

Which optional rules favor which side is not always clear. That sometimes depends on combinations of optional rules. And there is the possibility of helping one of the major powers while hurting another one on the same side. Even which point you are in the war matters, for some favor the attacker and others the defender.

If I am going to include anything on this at all, it will be separate from the description of each optional rule and more as a summary of them all. Most likely I will provide a reference to some other document where these issues have been discussed at length. As you imply in your question, the judgments on these can to be subjective. Especially in measuring the amount of the effect of an optional rule on play balance.
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RE: optional rules

Post by wfzimmerman »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Which optional rules favor which side is not always clear. That sometimes depends on combinations of optional rules. And there is the possibility of helping one of the major powers while hurting another one on the same side. Even which point you are in the war matters, for some favor the attacker and others the defender.

If I am going to include anything on this at all, it will be separate from the description of each optional rule and more as a summary of them all. Most likely I will provide a reference to some other document where these issues have been discussed at length. As you imply in your question, the judgments on these can to be subjective. Especially in measuring the amount of the effect of an optional rule on play balance.

Agree. Or maybe even just provide a text file with a pointer to the mwif forums.

The game play issue is that discussions over optional rules can massively increase time to start game and poor choice of options can disadvantage newbies. Seems worthwhile for MWIF to make some modest cost-effective attempts to reduce those obstacles.
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RE: optional rules

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Which optional rules favor which side is not always clear. That sometimes depends on combinations of optional rules. And there is the possibility of helping one of the major powers while hurting another one on the same side. Even which point you are in the war matters, for some favor the attacker and others the defender.

If I am going to include anything on this at all, it will be separate from the description of each optional rule and more as a summary of them all. Most likely I will provide a reference to some other document where these issues have been discussed at length. As you imply in your question, the judgments on these can to be subjective. Especially in measuring the amount of the effect of an optional rule on play balance.

Agree. Or maybe even just provide a text file with a pointer to the mwif forums.

The game play issue is that discussions over optional rules can massively increase time to start game and poor choice of options can disadvantage newbies. Seems worthwhile for MWIF to make some modest cost-effective attempts to reduce those obstacles.

Well, an easier answer to that might be to have various sets of optional rules chosen/preset for specifc purposes. For example, two players, experienced versus WIF newcomer, play with optional rule set X, experienced player plays Axis (or Allied) side. Several variations to handle different scenarios, 3 or more players and so on.
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RE: optional rules

Post by Froonp »

Here are some more of the writeups on the optional rules. I have made corrections to the one for engineers.
Please review for clarity and accuracy.
Read, and it seems ok for me.
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RE: optional rules

Post by composer99 »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

When using the 2d10 land CRT the preceding paragraph is replaced by the following. Engineers provide 1 odds shift for each combat factor when attacking or defending any city hex. An engineer with a combat strength of 2 provides two combat shifts on the 2d10 land CRT. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a city). If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).


I might point out here that the engineer's effects when attacking cities are not quite that powerful (an odds shift amounts to +2 on the dice when using 2d10): they only add +1 to the die roll for each engineer combat factor attacking a city, which amounts to a 1/2-odds shift.

Also:
ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

I realize that this comment opens a mare's nest, but how about providing some guidance to newbies on which options are typically considered pro-Axis or pro-Allies?

There is actually, in ADG's 2001 (or millennial) edition of the WiF Annual, a chart showing how pro-Axis or pro-Allied each option is. Maybe I will attempt to write it up here this evening.
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RE: optional rules

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

Some more of the optional rules descriptions for everyone to critique. This is my daily editing task currently. When I get to #81, I'll stop.

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[11][Synthetic Oil Plants][RAW 14 s. 22.4.11]
This optional rule adds Synthetic oil units to the game. Synthetic oil units represent plants designed to turn coal into fuel oil. Such plants were built extensively by Germany during the war, and also, to some extent, by Japan.

Like most other units, synthetic oil plants are limited to those available in the counter mix. The placement of synthetic oil plants is in any hex controlled by their major power that isn't in an enemy ZOC and won't violate stacking. Stacking is only 1 per hex. Once on the map, they produce 1 oil resource point per turn for whoever controls their hex.

Synthetic oil plants can be destroyed the same way factories are, if that optional rule is being used. However, synthetic oil plants can not be repaired. Note that they can be captured and used by the new owner.
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[12][Off City Reinforcement][RAW 15 s. 4.2]
All too frequently, you will want to bring in reinforcements but find that there is nowhere to put them without exceeding stacking limits. This optional rule addresses that situation by letting you bring in reinforcements in a hex adjacent to a city when the city’s stacking capacity has been reached.

If you can't place a reinforcement anywhere, without breaking the stacking rules, you may put it into a hex you control (not in an enemy ZOC) in the unit's home country that is next to a city where you could have placed it except for the rules for stacking limits. This only applies to air and land units. Specifically, it does not apply to naval units. Additionally, only 1 unit per city may be placed in this fashion each turn.
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[13][Recruitment Limits][RAW 16 s. 4.2]
Players tend to want to place reinforcements as close to the front lines as possible, so the units can start earning their paychecks. At times this can be unrealistic, with 2 corps sized units plus a division and 3 air units arriving all at once in a hex close to the front line. When 2 or 3 cities are in close proximity, the situation can be exacerbated with an enormous influx of units in one concentrated area.

To help maintain some semblance of realism, this rule restricts how many units can arrive in one hex. Note that militia units are exempt from these new restrictions.

Each turn, and in addition to any militia, only 1 land or 1 aircraft unit (which may include its pilot if that optional rule is being used) may be placed in each eligible city. Also, only 1 naval unit may be placed in each eligible port each turn, with the further restriction that aircraft carriers and battleships may only arrive at major ports. All these limits are doubled for units arriving in major power capitals (e.g., London, Berlin, Washington D.C.).
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[14][HQ Movement][RAW 17 s. 11.11.2]
This optional rule adds more realism to the movement of headquarters by placing a small movement penalty on them if they do not move along rail lines. A HQ (both HQ-A and HQ-I) spends one additional movement point for the first hexside it crosses that is not along a rail line. Note that it is only +1 for the first hexside it crosses during the movement phase, not +1 for each hexside. Also, if a HQ follows a rail line throughout its movement in a phase, it does not incur this penalty at all.
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[15][Bottomed Ships][RAW 18 s. 11.2]
This optional rule simulates the fact that major naval units sunk while in port could often be refloated. For instance, most of the ships damaged or sunk in the Pearl Harbor attack were repaired and saw service later in the war. The phrase “bottomed ships” refers to the fact that though sunk, the ships were merely sitting on the bottom of the harbor and could be refloated.

When applying naval air attack results against naval units in a port, a result of 'X' (or 2 'D' results) only destroys the target if an accompanying die roll is less than or equal to half its defense factor. If the die roll is greater than half of the unit’s defense factor, it is placed in the construction pool. This is equivalent to having the unit half built. However, convoy points are never bottomed - they are always destroyed.

When the optional rule for carrier planes is being used, the carrier air unit on a sunk carrier is always destroyed. That also includes its accompanying pilot if that optional rule is in effect.
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[16][In The Presence Of The Enemy][RAW 19 s. 11.4.2]
This optional rule adds a movement penalty to naval units that enter a sea area where only enemy naval units are present. The basic idea is that when there are enemy ships present, naval units move more carefully. However, if there are already friendly naval units in the sea area, then there is no penalty.

It costs a surface naval unit 2 points of its movement allowance (not range) to enter a sea area that contains an unsurprised enemy aircraft carrier (which has a carrier plane), SCS, or aircraft unit. This does not apply (i.e. you pay normal costs) if, at the start of the impulse, the sea area contained a friendly aircraft carrier (which has a carrier plane), SCS, or aircraft unit.

This penalty doesn't apply to a naval unit returning to base, or if the only enemy units attempting to slow you down are aircraft in a sea area experiencing storm or blizzard weather.
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RE: optional rules

Post by Froonp »

Some more of the optional rules descriptions for everyone to critique.
For the Synthetic Oil Plants you may also add that there are plants that are required to be built in specific hexes (an Italian one) and there is no choice as to the hex where it is built.

Otherwise, this seems ok.
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RE: optional rules

Post by mlees »

Like most other units, synthetic oil plants are limited to those available in the counter mix.

I noticed that in CWiF, there seemed to be no limit on the number of synth plants a nation could purchase (other than gearing limits and build points being available). Am I wrong here?
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RE: optional rules

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: mlees
Like most other units, synthetic oil plants are limited to those available in the counter mix.

I noticed that in CWiF, there seemed to be no limit on the number of synth plants a nation could purchase (other than gearing limits and build points being available). Am I wrong here?

I would have to look at the code. If it does not match the rules, I'll change it so it does.
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RE: optional rules

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Some more of the optional rules descriptions for everyone to critique.
For the Synthetic Oil Plants you may also add that there are plants that are required to be built in specific hexes (an Italian one) and there is no choice as to the hex where it is built.

Otherwise, this seems ok.

Ok. That last Synthetic oil plant is from Politics in Flames and requires it to be placed in Northern Africa (if it is built). I'll work out a specific hex (if the CWIF code hasn't already taken care of that).
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RE: optional rules

Post by Froonp »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Ok. That last Synthetic oil plant is from Politics in Flames and requires it to be placed in Northern Africa (if it is built). I'll work out a specific hex (if the CWIF code hasn't already taken care of that).
This is hex 84,46
This screen shot is direct from the game (except for the counter which is a scan of the original cardboard counter).

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RE: optional rules

Post by YohanTM2 »

I don't think there should be a counter limit on these. It is arbitrary, not like manpower constraints.
 
Rob
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RE: optional rules

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Yohan
I don't think there should be a counter limit on these. It is arbitrary, not like manpower constraints.

Rob

Ah, but the specter of WIF FE rears up its head and pronounces "You will not change the game!".

P.S. He has been nibbling on my butt about the map changes already.
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RE: optional rules

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

Here is my daily ration of optional rules for you to review.
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[17][Surprised ZOCs][RAW 20 s. 2.2]
This optional rule can have a major impact on play balance in the game. It eliminates the ZOC of units who are surprised. This lets a player who declares war and gains the benefit of surprise, to move land units through holes in an enemy line. If the surprised player doesn’t have a contiguous line of units forming his front line, it will be easy for the attacker to put out of supply and/or isolate a lot of the defending units by penetrating to the rear and cutting off their supply.

When this optional rule is used, no surprised unit has a ZOC during the impulse that it is surprised.
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[18][Bounce Combat][RAW 22 s. 14.3.3]
This is a very unusual rule because it changes the results of the air-to-air combat table and inserts a completely new element into air-to-air combat. The idea behind the rule is that at times one side may be able to force the other side to engage in one-to-one combat between air units. This rule adds more complexity to the air-to-air combat system and is not available when playing by email (PBEM).

To appreciate what this rule does, it is necessary to understand the basics of the WIF air-to-air combat system. Normally, air-to-air combat is fought by large groups of air units, with each air unit representing hundreds of planes. The combat system forms the combatants into 4 groups, with each side having a sorted list of bombers and fighters. The air-to-air strength of the opposing front fighters, augmented by their supporting fighters, determines the combat odds and the combat results table (CRT) columns for the die rolls. The description just given is somewhat simplified, but for the purposes of this explanation of bounce combat, they are sufficient.

When the optional rule for bounce combat is being used, air-to-air combat proceeds as normal unless one side or the other receives a DC result on the air combat CRT. These are good results for the defender since they let him clear through one of his bombers. The optional rule for bounce combat permits the defender to either take the DC result as normally, or to treat the result as a Bounce Combat. Note that a bounce combat is completely different from a DC result. The only thing they have in common is that both are good for the defender (i.e., the player who received the DC result). The defender gets to choose between 2 good things: DC or Bounce Combat.

If the defender chooses a bounce combat, the normal air-to-air combat sequence is interrupted to immediately fight a bounce combat. To fight a bounce combat, the defender selects any one of his remaining fighters and any one opposing aircraft (fighter or bomber) that remains in the combat. These two aircraft fight one round of air-to-air combat.

Note that the defender gets to select the air units for both sides. However, his opponent has the ability to choose his own unit for participation in the bounce combat if he spends 3 surprise points. For this separate air-to-air combat, the air-to-air values are calculated normally except that there is no benefit derived from any of the other fighters, and the defender (i.e., the player who initiated the bounce combat) gains +1 to the air-to-air rating for his fighter.

The results of the bounce combat are applied as per the "Air Combat Chart", but can only affect the two planes involved. After this combat is resolved, if the bouncing fighter is not aborted or destroyed it is placed in the rear of the line of fighters from which it came. If the bounced plane is a fighter and is either cleared through or not affected, it returns to its prior place in the fighter lineup. If the bounced plane is a bomber and the result is no effect, it returns to its prior place in the bomber lineup. After the bounce combat ends, the Air-to-Air Combat sequence of play resumes from where it had been interrupted.

Note that only the defender’s fighter returns to the end of the line of fighters. The other unit involved in the bounce combat goes back to where it was previously in the air unit lineups.

Here is a detailed example of bounce combat. The German player flies 3 fighters, and 3 bombers to a hex he is about to attack. The USSR player responds with 2 fighters and 3 bombers in ground support. The air-to-air combat value for the Soviet player, who fires first, is -1. The USSR player rolls an 11, a 'DC'. The German player decides not to clear through a bomber, but instead uses his FW 190 (which is the second fighter in line) to bounce one of the USSR player's fighters, which has a value of 7. The FW is a 7 but gets +1 to its air-to-air rating for this combat, so the odds are +1 and -1 for the German and USSR players respectively.

The USSR player rolls another 11 clearing the FW (which has no effect), while the German player rolls a 2, destroying the Soviet fighter. The German fighter now returns to the rear of the German lineup of fighters, and the German player must recalculate his air-to-air strength using his new fighter lineup against the new Soviet air-to-air strength before firing back at the Soviets (step 3 of the air-to-air combat sequence). Following the implementation of the German player's roll, the first round of air-to-air combat is concluded. Each player now decides whether they will abort the combat.

As I said, this adds to the complexity of air-to-air combat.
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[19][V Weapons][RAW 23 s. 11.7.1]
This optional rule adds V-weapon units to the game. V-weapons simulate the unmanned rockets that Germany fired on England during the war. In game terms they have a strategic bombing effect, capable of both strategic bombing and carpet bombing. While the earlier V-1 weapons can be intercepted, the later V-2 and V-3 cannot. However, all V-weapons are destroyed upon use, which makes them somewhat unattractive to build.

Only Germany can build V-weapons, which both form a new force pool and are a new class for gearing limit purposes. They may not be accelerated (i.e, built ahead of their normal availability date). Because they are unmanned, their cost is the same whether the optional rule for pilots is being used or not.

V-weapons fly strategic and carpet bombing missions the same way other aircraft do. However, V-2 and V-3 weapons cannot be intercepted. If a V-1 is aborted, it is destroyed instead. Regardless of the bombing mission outcome, all V-weapons are destroyed after they attack their target.

All V-weapons can use rail movement and naval transportation as if they were land units. For capacity considerations, an active naval transport may carry 1 V-weapon. In additon, V-2 weapons can also move like land units. However, V-weapons can't fly a mission in the same impulse in which they have moved.
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[20][Atomic Bombs][RAW 23 s. 11.7.1]
This optional rule adds A-bomb units to the game. These function as powerful strategic bombing weapons, but they must be carried to the target hex by a strategic bomber. They can be used on either strategic or carpet bombing missions.

Only the USA can build atomic bombs, which both form a new force pool and are a new class for gearing limit purposes. They may not be accelerated (i.e, built ahead of their normal availability date). Their cost is the same whether the optional rule for pilots is being used or not.

Once an atomic bomb has been built, it is available for placement with any US bomber with 9 or more printed strategic bombardment factors. The assignment of an atomic bomb to a strategic bomber is done at the start of a strategic bombardment mission. Until then they are simply ‘available’.

When carpet bombing, A-bombs have 25 strategic bombardment factors.

When using an atomic bomb for strategic bombardment, the strategic bomber carrying it must first get by any air-to-air combat and/or anti-aircraft fire without being aborted or destroyed. Should that hurdle be overcome, then the A-bomb may be dropped on the target hex. The attacker picks one of the following 3 targets within the hex: (1) factories, (2) ships in the port, or (3) resources. Half (rounded up) of whichever type he picks are destroyed with the losses chosen randomly.

A-bomb strategic bombardment is never modified for terrain, weather or night missions. The A-bomb is destroyed after it attacks its target. If its bomber is destroyed, the A-bomb is destroyed as well. Although you may fly other bombers to a hex being threatened by an A-bomb (to absorb the losses from air-to-air combat and antiaircraft fire), the dropping of an A-bomb precludes a normal strategic bombardment attack in that hex for that impulse.
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RE: optional rules

Post by Froonp »

[20][Atomic Bombs][RAW 23 s. 11.7.1]
The description you gives is the old A-Bomb rule.
The latest (Aug04 rules available from ADG website) have it differently :

*********************************
11.7.1 V-weapons and atomic bombs (PiF option 23)
A-bombs
Only the USA can build an atomic bomb. It arrives as a reinforcement like all other units (see 4.2). It is a land unit but without a ZoC and is captured when overrun by an enemy land unit. If playing America in Flames or Patton in Flames there is no counter limit to A-bombs and, subject to research, any major power may build them.
A-bombs have no movement allowance. An A-bomb may only move by rail (see 11.10) and naval transport (see 11.4.5) as if it was an INF division (even if not playing with that option).
Furthermore, any of the owner’s bombers with 9 or more printed strategic bombardment factors may air transport (see 11.12), or launch a port attack with (see 11.2), or strategic bombard with an A-bomb in the appropriate step of each impulse.
During port attack or strategic bombardment, if the bomber survives any air-to-air combat and/or anti-aircraft fire without being aborted or destroyed, the A-bomb may be dropped on the target.
An A-bomb attacks with 25 factors instead of the bombers own factors. It may be included with other bombers attacking the target. A-bomb factors are modified for terrain, weather or night missions like all other bombers.
The A-bomb is destroyed after it attacks its target. If its bomber is destroyed, the A-bomb is destroyed as well.

Plus

11.8 Carpet bombing (option 32)
The carpet bombing
PiF option 23: You may carpet bomb with atomic bombs and V-weapons. When carpet bombing, A-bombs have 25 strategic bombardment factors.
*********************************
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RE: optional rules

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Froonp
[20][Atomic Bombs][RAW 23 s. 11.7.1]
The description you gives is the old A-Bomb rule.
The latest (Aug04 rules available from ADG website) have it differently :

*********************************
11.7.1 V-weapons and atomic bombs (PiF option 23)
A-bombs
Only the USA can build an atomic bomb. It arrives as a reinforcement like all other units (see 4.2). It is a land unit but without a ZoC and is captured when overrun by an enemy land unit. If playing America in Flames or Patton in Flames there is no counter limit to A-bombs and, subject to research, any major power may build them.
A-bombs have no movement allowance. An A-bomb may only move by rail (see 11.10) and naval transport (see 11.4.5) as if it was an INF division (even if not playing with that option).
Furthermore, any of the owner’s bombers with 9 or more printed strategic bombardment factors may air transport (see 11.12), or launch a port attack with (see 11.2), or strategic bombard with an A-bomb in the appropriate step of each impulse.
During port attack or strategic bombardment, if the bomber survives any air-to-air combat and/or anti-aircraft fire without being aborted or destroyed, the A-bomb may be dropped on the target.
An A-bomb attacks with 25 factors instead of the bombers own factors. It may be included with other bombers attacking the target. A-bomb factors are modified for terrain, weather or night missions like all other bombers.
The A-bomb is destroyed after it attacks its target. If its bomber is destroyed, the A-bomb is destroyed as well.

Plus

11.8 Carpet bombing (option 32)
The carpet bombing
PiF option 23: You may carpet bomb with atomic bombs and V-weapons. When carpet bombing, A-bombs have 25 strategic bombardment factors.
*********************************

Ok. I won't include the stuff about Patton in Flames and America in Flames in the description.

It seems the A-bomb is now just 25 strategic bombing points (or air to sea factors if doing a port attack). Other than the transportation issue, it's like normal bombing factors.
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RE: V weapons

Post by Neilster »

V-weapons simulate the unmanned rockets that Germany fired on England during the war.

As the V-1 was a pulse-jet powered cruise missile and the V-3 was a huge, buried, multi-stage cannon, perhaps the above could be more appropriately written as...

"V-weapons simulate the advanced weapons developed by Germany in retaliation to Allied strategic bombing which were aimed at cities in England and the Low Countries. The V-1 was a small pulse-jet powered robotic aeroplane, the V-2 was a liquid-fueled rocket and the V-3 was a large, buried cannon which was aimed at London and fired arrow-shaped shells that were progressively accelerated by many rocket charges firing in sequence. All had explosive warheads."

BTW, it doesn't seem to make sense that the V-3 is destroyed after use or that it can be rail or naval transported. The two smaller ones that were built at Lampaden (near Trier) fired a couple of hundered missiles for 2 months and even these were not transportable whatsoever.

Cheers, Neilster

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RE: V weapons

Post by mlees »

As to my last post here (#28), please ignore. I made it without the benefit of caffeine...

In explanation: It wasn't synth plants I remember being no counter mix limit too, but new factory construction. But my foggy memory suffered form some obscure form of dyslexia.

There is indeed a counter mix limitation in CWiF to synth plants.

Please do not waste time researching this, Steve, and please accept my "Doh! as an apology.

Neilster:
V-3 was a large, buried cannon which was aimed at London and fired arrow-shaped shells that were progressively accelerated by many rocket charges firing in sequence. All had explosive warheads.

I googled V-3 rocket and got a mixture of results. The term seems to be used for the cannon, as you mention, but also a rocket. I think the V-3 was also used (incorrectly) by some folks as a reference to the "New York" rocket that was not completed before the end of the war. (IIRC, the counter bears a model name of A-1 for that rocket, but it is considered, and falls under the terms of, the V-weapon rules.)
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RE: V weapons

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Neilster
V-weapons simulate the unmanned rockets that Germany fired on England during the war.

As the V-1 was a pulse-jet powered cruise missile and the V-3 was a huge, buried, multi-stage cannon, perhaps the above could be more appropriately written as...

"V-weapons simulate the advanced weapons developed by Germany in retaliation to Allied strategic bombing which were aimed at cities in England and the Low Countries. The V-1 was a small pulse-jet powered robotic aeroplane, the V-2 was a liquid-fueled rocket and the V-3 was a large, buried cannon which was aimed at London and fired arrow-shaped shells that were progressively accelerated by many rocket charges firing in sequence. All had explosive warheads."

BTW, it doesn't seem to make sense that the V-3 is destroyed after use or that it can be rail or naval transported. The two smaller ones that were built at Lampaden (near Trier) fired a couple of hundered missiles for 2 months and even these were not transportable whatsoever.

Cheers, Neilster

This level of detail is most appropriate for describing the counters - as is done for the other air units in the game. For the optional rules writeup I mainly wanted to communicate a reason that there is no need to build a pilot for these "air units". I'll clean the text up a bit at your suggestion, but I do not want to teach the reader about the technology at this point. I just want to give him enough information to decide whether to use the optional rule or not.
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RE: V weapons

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

Oh, and I forgot to add: I am not changing the rules from WIF FE.

The reason the units are destroyed probably has to do with the destruction of the part that is in the air, rather than the part that is on the ground. WIF FE rules treat V-Weapons like the A-Bomb in many regards (they are described together in the same paragraphs). For whatever reason, the designers have lumped them together in the same category.
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