Random starts

[Deathtreader]

Hi all,

This is shamelessly copied from the Run 5 forum for Battlefront:

In setting up the game, the player can either choose to play the historical battle, or any of the variants, or - best of all - can select "random choice". With the random choice option, the player can't be entirely sure what forces the enemy has or where they are. This feature increased the replayability of the game immensely, and contributed to a bit of a feel of the uncertainty that real leaders faced.

So, why not try to do the same with Battlefront? Create some historically plausible variants, in terms of objectives, force mixes, unit characteristics, even weather... and inject a bit of uncertainty and randomness into the battles, for players that so desire. If you have say 5 possible variations for each side, in addition to the historical situation, that's 36 possible starting situations!

THe AA engine already handles that sort of thing if there are multiple reinforcement schedules, would it be possible (or even desireable in terms of the AA playing community) for the game series to handle something like the above proposal?? Different at start, force mix etc.

Rob.

[MarkShot]

This has been done for LZ/DZ type scenarios. However, I don't think the ability is there for ground forces.

Of course, the longer and larger a scenario is the greater the potential for randomness by virtue of the game play itself. Also, I don't know if there is an inherent random element in the way the AI formulates its plans.

[Golf33]

Reinforcement schedules will accomplish all of that. You have a number of different schedules for each reinforcement level and each schedule has a different mix of units and a different place of arrival. All units arrive via the schedule instead of being placed on the map.

On game start COTA will pick one schedule at random but the players do not have control over which one nor can they see which one until they get in the game.

[JeF]

Rob knows about it already I think.
It only works for units coming as reinforcements.

There is a bit of randomness in the weather determination as well I believe.

What Rob suggest is to go further :
- have different starting forces (esp. defender),
- randomize their initial status (within boundaries)
- have some redundant objectives tht can be choosen at random,
- completely randomize the weather and airstrike patterns (eventually within some boundaries)
- etc.

Now, Mark, there is a lot of factors influencing the AI plans. I think there is a bit of randomness there as well. As nothing is cripted, it provides a lot of different situations.

A small anecdote, when I was first playing Red Devils Over Arnhem, I played and re-playd Drive on Loenen to death. I faced, as the attacker, completely different defensive situations. I thought for a long time that this was already implemented : that there were three or four possible starting situations for the computer opponent. In fact there was only one ! The AI plan was different each time, that's it. It's assessment of the situation depends on so many factors (and time is one of the less controllable) that the reaction was slightly different each case. with sometimes big variations in the placement of its armour for example. This scenario has three objectives, a regiment-sized force and lasts 12 hours, but it is highly replayable.

Now that I wrote this, I realize that in regards of replayablility, the PCT concept has a big advantage. On turn based games, the AI assess the situation at fixed moments, i.e. every turn and it gives its orders at the same fixed moments. Now, in PCT, it's more or less the same : situations are assessed at fixed times. But the situation, at those times, due the the fluctuations of continuous time and space might not be exactly the same, even if the player tries to implement the same plan again and again : now the artillery has moved slightly slower, the 1st Bn is ready for attack 2 minutes sooner, etc. So the situation is slightly different. Different situations will lead to a different reaction. Hence the inherent replayability.
Turn based hex games tend to be much more deterministics. Just have a look at the TOA opening studies on Run5 forums...

That was too long, and a bit off topic, I know. These are my current thougts about this fantastic game.

Cheers,

JeF.

[Arjuna]

There is no reason why you cannot have all the at start units appear as reinforcements, albeit with a start and end time set to the scenario start. That way they must arrive on map at the start. Then all you need do is have multiple versions of the schedule ( hit the duplicate key, then drag the reinforcements to different arrical locations - too easy ). Then one of these will be chosen randomly at scenario start and hey presto you have random at start deployments. Some of the scenarios already do this.
 
It's easy to modify an existing scenario to do it too. Just save it under a new name. Create a new reinf schedule or use an existing one if has one. Remove all the existing at start units from the map - lassoo select the units on the map ( not on the force list ) and hit the delete key. Then add them to your reinforcement schedules and repeat the above duplicate, relocate routine. Easy really. Go for it.

[Deathtreader]

Hi all,

Hmmmmm...........
Interesting food for thought in those responses. Thanks for the replies guys! [8D]

Rob.