World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.
ORIGINAL: Neilster
Re partisans only being a nuisance...they basically liberated Yugoslavia and huge areas of Belorussia and the Ukraine were partisan controlled at various times after 1942. The Germans protected their rail lines, garrisoned cities and major towns and basically ceded the countryside. Every now and again they conducted major sweeps which involved surrounding a large area and tightening the ring to force the partisans to battle. It would have been worse for them but the partisans fought among themselves for much of the time. Ditto for Yugoslavia.
I was never too keen on "passive" for flipped units. Just to throw something out there, how about "ready/spent"? It's brief.
Cheers, Neilster
I gave some more thought and have some other possibilities:
Ready/Disordered
Fresh/Used
Ready/Immobile
And one just for you: In best bib and tucker/at sixes and sevens
These words can reflect the state of any unit effectively...
Ready implies units become unready but the term isn't used.
Immobile doesn't apply well to planes or ships because it's not clear what causes immobility.
Fresh/Used are decent terms, but don't intrinsically lend themselves to thought about HQ reorganization, or reorganization at the end of the turn.
Organized is easily interpreted by me as any type of unit which is ready to be used in some way.
Disorganized means the unit has participated in an action which caused this status.
Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln
These words can reflect the state of any unit effectively...
Ready implies units become unready but the term isn't used.
Immobile doesn't apply well to planes or ships because it's not clear what causes immobility.
Fresh/Used are decent terms, but don't intrinsically lend themselves to thought about HQ reorganization, or reorganization at the end of the turn.
Organized is easily interpreted by me as any type of unit which is ready to be used in some way.
Disorganized means the unit has participated in an action which caused this status.
Same for me.
What I like a lot with this is that it goes nicely with the reorganization-thing that WiF is nearly all about.
So units are disorganized by combat, and to fight more, HQ / TRS / ATR reorganize them, this is a marvel.
ORIGINAL: Zorachus99
I still prefer Organized / Disorganized.
These words can reflect the state of any unit effectively...
Ready implies units become unready but the term isn't used.
Immobile doesn't apply well to planes or ships because it's not clear what causes immobility.
Fresh/Used are decent terms, but don't intrinsically lend themselves to thought about HQ reorganization, or reorganization at the end of the turn.
Organized is easily interpreted by me as any type of unit which is ready to be used in some way.
Disorganized means the unit has participated in an action which caused this status.
Yes. I like to push a little harder at tmies to see if something better can be found. It doesn't mean I dislike Organized/Disorganized.
Another serving of optional rules. The partisan HQ one may address some of the issues Neilster raised earlier.
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[66][Siberians][RAW 68 s. 22.4.7]
This optional rule adds the elite USSR Siberians units to the game. When using this rule, the USSR player should bring in all the Siberians during setup.
Each Siberian unit can replace a Soviet infantry unit at the start of a scenario. In scenarios that begin in 1939, the Siberian units can only replace units that start east of the Urals. In other scenarios, they can start anywhere. When setting up his units, the USSR player decides which infantry units, if any, he wishes to replace with Siberians. Any Siberian units that do not start on the map are placed in the infantry force pool.
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[67][Naval Supply Units][RAW 69 s. 22.4.13]
This optional rule simulates the ability of major powers to enhance the capacity of minor ports, if they really want to do so. It models the Allied floating harbors created after D-Day.
Naval supply units are normal naval transport units in all respects. If you are not playing with this option, treat them as just another naval transport unit. However, when using this optional rule, you can upgrade a minor port to increase its capacity by 10 or 15 more naval units.
At the start of a naval movement step, you can announce that you are upgrading a minor port. You can do this if there is an active naval supply unit in that port. The naval supply unit becomes passive and the port is marked as upgraded. You can now stack an extra 10 or 15 naval units at that port (the unit indicates which). Upgrading or downgrading a port counts as 1 naval move. The naval supply unit no longer counts against stacking at that port and may not be chosen as a target during port strikes. If it is overrun, it must rebase in the same manner as all other naval units in the port.
At the start of a naval movement step, you can announce that you are downgrading an upgraded port. The naval supply unit then becomes active and stacking at that port is now normal. You can only downgrade a port if it would not be over stacked after downgrading.
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[68][Guards Banner Armies][RAW 70 s. 22.4.14]
This optional rule simulates the enhanced capabilities given to some Soviet units after they performed well. Essentially they were transformed into elite units as a reward for excellent performance in combat.
There are 8 Russian armies (taken from Leaders in Flames, which otherwise is not part of MWIF product 1), which are Guards Banner Armies. These are kept as reserves, but do not arrive when other reserves do. Instead, whenever Soviet land units are in land combat against any German controlled land unit(s), the Soviets may be able to "promote" one of their units to a Guards Banner unit of the same type as that involved in the battle (e.g. armor for armor, or motorized for motorized, etc.). The promotion is based on obtaining a positive number based on the following calculations:
For each German controlled corps/army sized unit (these are doubled for HQ units):
∙ Killed, +3;
∙ Shattered, +2;
∙ Retreated +1.
For each German controlled division sized unit:
∙ Killed, +1.5;
∙ Shattered, +1;
∙ Retreated +0.5.
Using the same formulae, Soviets losses are subtracted from the total. If the result is positive (i.e. the Soviets won the battle), the Soviet player may immediately promote 1 surviving unit. The resulting positive number is now used to decide which units can be replaced. The positive result summed with the combat factors of the unit being replaced must equal or exceed the combat factors of the Guards Banner Army replacement. The active/passive status of the replaced unit determines the status of the Guards Banner Army replacement. The replaced unit is returned to the force pool and may be scrapped as if destroyed.
For example, 2 Soviet armies (a 5-6 mechanized and a 6-3 infantry) are defending the Dnieper bend. A Rumanian attack against it fails dismally rolling a 5 on a 2-1 assault (2/1). The Rumanians lose 2 armies, while the Soviets lose one. Thus, for the purposes of promotion, the Soviets get +3 (6 - 3). They decide to lose the mechanized corps, because adding 3 to the 5-6 mechanized corps only totals 8, well short of the 11 required to gain the only mechanized Guards Banner Army. But by adding 3 to the 6 factor infantry army totals 9. Unfortunately, the 9-4 Guards Banner Army is already on the map, so the Soviet player places the 6-3 back in the force pool and places the 8-4 7th Guards Banner Army on the map. Note that even if the Germans had contributed a division to the attack and taken this as a loss, the total would only have been 2 points (4.5- 3), that this would have still been enough points to replace the 6-3 with the 8-4.
When destroyed, Guards Banner Armies are placed back in the Reserve pool and are again available for other promotions. Unlike normal reserves, when the Soviet Union comes to peace with Germany, on-map Guards Banner Armies are not moved back to the Reserve pool.
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[69][Chinese Warlords][RAW 71 s. 22.4.15]
This optional rule simulates the significant role that Chinese warlords played in the fighting in China. In rescaling the WIF FE Pacific map to the MWIF unified world map using the WIF FE European map scale, WIF players strongly recommended including this optional rule (even though it comes from Politics in Flames which is not part of MWIF product 1).
The Chinese warlord units represent forces loyal to one particular Warlord in China rather than the central Government. Each warlord unit has a city stated on the front of the counter. This is the warlord's home city. All Warlord units set up in every game on their home city and are controlled by the major power controlling the city. Warlord units whose home city is controlled by the communist player are considered Communist units. If their city is Nationalist controlled, they are Nationalist units. This is true for any major power. For example, warlord cities controlled by Japan or the USSR have their warlord units controlled by Japan and the USSR.
Warlord units are treated like any other unit for all purposes except that no Warlord unit may move nor advance after combat more than 4 hexes from its home city. They can attack from that 4th hex to a hex where they could not move to, but could not advance after combat.
If forced to retreat from combat, the attacker must attempt to retreat them in such a way that they remain within 4 hexes of their city. However, if this is not possible, the unit is destroyed instead. Destroyed warlord units return to the owner's force like any other unit and may be rebuilt as usual. When they arrive as reinforcements, warlord units arrive in their home city.
When a warlord's home city is conquered (or captured by the other Chinese faction), the warlord unit is immediately removed from the game, even before other combats are resolved (and ones that would have included their units).
Warlord units not currently in the game may be added to the force pools of the major power that controls their home city during any production step and may be built from this turn onwards.
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[70][Partisan HQs][RAW 72 s. 22.4.16]
This optional rule enables the Soviet and Yugoslavian partisans to become stronger and better organized. WIF players strongly recommended including this optional rule even though it comes from Politics in Flames which is not part of MWIF product 1.
The Zoya K. unit is treated the same as any other Soviet HQ except that you cannot build her. Instead, this Partisan HQ may only enter the game whenever two partisans are stacked in a hex in the Soviet Union at the start of any Partisan step. During this step, the Soviet player may remove the two partisans and place the Partisan HQ in that hex instead.
Zoya K. is treated as a normal HQ-I for all purposes (e.g. she is not restricted in co-operation like other partisans, she is a secondary supply source for all Soviet units, but must still trace back to a primary supply source, etc). However Zoya K. herself is always in supply in her home country and doesn't need oil to reorganize.
When destroyed, Zoya K. is removed from the game until again substituted on the map for two partisans in the same manner as above. When shattered, the owning player may destroy her instead.
Tito is also a partisan HQ and follows the same rules as Zoya K. except he is a Yugoslav rather than Russian unit.
The partisan HQs do not count against the maximum partisan limit for the USSR or Yugoslavia.
There have been a number of disputes in the WiF Discussion list about the partisan HQ's. Some feel they are indeed only partisans and cannot leave their home country, others feel they are HQ's in all respects and that they are able to leave their home country.
Personally I believe they must remain inside their home country.
Lars
There have been a number of disputes in the WiF Discussion list about the partisan HQ's. Some feel they are indeed only partisans and cannot leave their home country, others feel they are HQ's in all respects and that they are able to leave their home country.
Personally I believe they must remain inside their home country.
Lars
The bottom line of the text (verbatim from the rulebook) below is that they are considered as normal HQ, so I think this belief is wrong.
**************************************************** 22.4.16 Partisan HQs (PoliF option 72)
The Zoya K. is treated the same as any other Soviet HQ except that you cannot purchase her. Instead, the Partisan HQ may only enter the game whenever two partisans are stacked in a hex in the Soviet Union at the start of any Partisan step. During this step, the Soviet player may remove the two partisans and place the Partisan HQ in that hex instead.
Zoya K. is treated as a normal HQ-I for all purposes (e.g she is not restricted in co-operation like other partisans, she is a secondary supply source for all Soviet units, but must still trace back to a primary supply source, etc) except that Zoya K. herself is always in supply in her home country and doesn’t need oil to reorganise.
When destroyed, Zoya K. is removed from the game until again substituted on the map for two partisans in the same manner as above. When shattered, the owning player may destroy her instead.
Tito is also a partisan HQ and follows the same rules as Zoya K. except he is a Yugoslav rather than Russian unit.
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There have been a number of disputes in the WiF Discussion list about the partisan HQ's. Some feel they are indeed only partisans and cannot leave their home country, others feel they are HQ's in all respects and that they are able to leave their home country.
Personally I believe they must remain inside their home country.
Lars
It is the line - "always in supply in her home country" that makes me think she is permitted to leave her home country. I would also expect there to be some specific statement about this Yes or No - but there isn't. I lean towards Patrice's interpretation that she can visit foreign lands. Please note that I have no personal interest in this either way; I'm just trying to follow the WIF FE rules.
There have been a number of disputes in the WiF Discussion list about the partisan HQ's. Some feel they are indeed only partisans and cannot leave their home country, others feel they are HQ's in all respects and that they are able to leave their home country.
Personally I believe they must remain inside their home country.
Lars
It is the line - "always in supply in her home country" that makes me think she is permitted to leave her home country. I would also expect there to be some specific statement about this Yes or No - but there isn't. I lean towards Patrice's interpretation that she can visit foreign lands. Please note that I have no personal interest in this either way; I'm just trying to follow the WIF FE rules.
I do not object to the rules of the patisan HQ's, whether or not they are limited to their own countries. I did want to point out that there has been a lot of arguments about it on the WiF Discussion list.
Whatever the impementation will be, just be certain to specify what they can or cannot do.
here is a fun question about Guards Banner Armies - When exactly do you promote them? Does "after the battle" mean before advancing into a second hex as a result of a Breakthrough result? This makes a difference for possibly overrunning anything in the second hex.
here is a fun question about Guards Banner Armies - When exactly do you promote them? Does "after the battle" mean before advancing into a second hex as a result of a Breakthrough result? This makes a difference for possibly overrunning anything in the second hex.
I think that the Battle ends after the advance after combat. Common sense dictate that. How a unit would instantly gain 30% combat points before advancing after combat ?
The Combat and the Advance after combat are all part of the Battle for me.
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
Isn't this clearly stated in paragraph 13.1 in Raw 7 aug 04 (in the "Partisan effects"-section)?
"Partisans may move anywhere within their home country. They can never leave their home country."
A partisan HQ is still a partisan, right? Just a thought
Btw, really nice work on the optional rules. Like it a lot.
But the rule about Part-HQ overrides this.
Things are not determined by lones rules, but by all rules that applies to them.
The PART rule dictates the rules about partisans.
The HQ PART rule dicates the extra rule about those special units. It complete and overrides the previous rule.
here is a fun question about Guards Banner Armies - When exactly do you promote them? Does "after the battle" mean before advancing into a second hex as a result of a Breakthrough result? This makes a difference for possibly overrunning anything in the second hex.
I think that the Battle ends after the advance after combat. Common sense dictate that. How a unit would instantly gain 30% combat points before advancing after combat ?
The Combat and the Advance after combat are all part of the Battle for me.
I agree. But without clear chapter and verse language in the WiF rules, a case is sometimes made that the promotion is instantaneous.
here is a fun question about Guards Banner Armies - When exactly do you promote them? Does "after the battle" mean before advancing into a second hex as a result of a Breakthrough result? This makes a difference for possibly overrunning anything in the second hex.
I think that the Battle ends after the advance after combat. Common sense dictate that. How a unit would instantly gain 30% combat points before advancing after combat ?
The Combat and the Advance after combat are all part of the Battle for me.
Maybe we need a "gamey interpretations on" option!
ORIGINAL: trees trees
here is a fun question about Guards Banner Armies - When exactly do you promote them? Does "after the battle" mean before advancing into a second hex as a result of a Breakthrough result? This makes a difference for possibly overrunning anything in the second hex.
I think that the Battle ends after the advance after combat. Common sense dictate that. How a unit would instantly gain 30% combat points before advancing after combat ?
The Combat and the Advance after combat are all part of the Battle for me.
I agree. But without clear chapter and verse language in the WiF rules, a case is sometimes made that the promotion is instantaneous.
Making the rules clearer is my purpose here. Ideally, we put all the rules lawyers out of a job - send them each a tin cup to sit on the sidewalk and beg for charity.
This is not to say that I want to rewrite RAW. My motivation is that I have to write code to implement the rules, so the rules have to be crystal clear to me. As a side benefit, I can then make them crystal clear to newbies in the documentation - Rules as Coded (RAC).
Therefore, what we decide for each rule is less important to me than that we decide. We make the decision and I make the program work that way.
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
Isn't this clearly stated in paragraph 13.1 in Raw 7 aug 04 (in the "Partisan effects"-section)?
"Partisans may move anywhere within their home country. They can never leave their home country."
A partisan HQ is still a partisan, right? Just a thought
Btw, really nice work on the optional rules. Like it a lot.
But the rule about Part-HQ overrides this.
Things are not determined by lones rules, but by all rules that applies to them.
The PART rule dictates the rules about partisans.
The HQ PART rule dicates the extra rule about those special units. It complete and overrides the previous rule.
I guess you're right. But it seems a little bit weird that PART-HQs can leave while PARTs cannot.
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
Isn't this clearly stated in paragraph 13.1 in Raw 7 aug 04 (in the "Partisan effects"-section)?
"Partisans may move anywhere within their home country. They can never leave their home country."
A partisan HQ is still a partisan, right? Just a thought
Btw, really nice work on the optional rules. Like it a lot.
But the rule about Part-HQ overrides this.
Things are not determined by lones rules, but by all rules that applies to them.
The PART rule dictates the rules about partisans.
The HQ PART rule dicates the extra rule about those special units. It complete and overrides the previous rule.
I guess you're right. But it seems a little bit weird that PART-HQs can leave while PARTs cannot.
Partisan HQ's make a big difference since they are capable of changing the control of a hex permanently - something a mere partisan unit cannot. That is much more significant than having them wander far from home (where staying in supply becomes a major problem).
Partisan HQ's permanently change control of hexes.... That is another aspect of them I had never thought of.
Is that really the intent of the rule, after all they are still partisans.
If hex control change is real for them, that makes them exteremely powerful units.
Lars
