Best way to play each power

[Joisey]

Under the conditions for Russia to gain dominance, at the very least you have to take East and West Galicia from Austria. To do that you have to declare war on Austria, ergo, it is implied in your "demand" to England, which is why it is so obnoxious.

Its hard to see how attacking Austria "helps out" against France.

As I said, a Russian drive for dominance will only result in a big French win. Unless you hold off on your conquest for dominance until after France is vanquished. But, again, I'm only going by what you said, and you said that you "demand" England's acquiescence at the very beginning. This requires England to immediately start the game being unfaithful to Austria, and would be repugnant to me.

[Sardonic]

ORIGINAL: Joisey

Under the conditions for Russia to gain dominance, at the very least you have to take East and West Galicia from Austria. To do that you have to declare war on Austria, ergo, it is implied in your "demand" to England, which is why it is so obnoxious.

Its hard to see how attacking Austria "helps out" against France.

As I said, a Russian drive for dominance will only result in a big French win. Unless you hold off on your conquest for dominance until after France is vanquished. But, again, I'm only going by what you said, and you said that you "demand" England's acquiescence at the very beginning. This requires England to immediately start the game being unfaithful to Austria, and would be repugnant to me.

Ahh well it is a long game and alot can happen. For example: France defeats the First Coalition and takes
East and West Galacia. In such a case, I no longer need to attack Austria.

I would need to fight France, but then it is very likely I will have to do that anyway.
However I want to let England know, right away, that my fleets are MINE. I do what I want with them.
(Usually supplying a coastal advance)
And that I will fight over Sweden. Yes, he can stop me from taking it. But only by focusing all his attention
on doing that. I however am unrelenting. It is up to England how long he wishs to give France a free hand.
Also, Spain will quite likely take Portugal, I mean why not?

The Russian have a great many men, they can simply keep comming. Sweden alone is NOT gonna hold them off.
In fact, I would guess that EVERYONE would be relieved to see England distracted.
Certainly Turkey would enjoy a free hand.

[Roads]

As I said, a Russian drive for dominance will only result in a big French win. Unless you hold off on your conquest for dominance until after France is vanquished. But, again, I'm only going by what you said, and you said that you "demand" England's acquiescence at the very beginning. This requires England to immediately start the game being unfaithful to Austria, and would be repugnant to me.

I don't see how it's any more obnoxious than a Britain that demands Sweden. Or indeed any more likely to cause a French win. If I'm Russia, and Britain demonstrates on the very first turn that he is more interested in ensuring that I can never get dominance than in beating France, who is actually dominant, I'm going to be worried about how I can ever win the game. What the British player who demands Sweden is saying is that he's happy to let France succeed simply to stop Russia. As Russia this is an attitude that is going to ruin my chances of winning. And 1805 is the best time to teach Britain that his attitude is counter-productive. The balance of power is more favorable for Russia than it will ever be, and there is more time to stop France once Britain sees the light.

[Joisey]

ORIGINAL: Roads

As I said, a Russian drive for dominance will only result in a big French win. Unless you hold off on your conquest for dominance until after France is vanquished. But, again, I'm only going by what you said, and you said that you "demand" England's acquiescence at the very beginning. This requires England to immediately start the game being unfaithful to Austria, and would be repugnant to me.

I don't see how it's any more obnoxious than a Britain that demands Sweden. Or indeed any more likely to cause a French win. If I'm Russia, and Britain demonstrates on the very first turn that he is more interested in ensuring that I can never get dominance than in beating France, who is actually dominant, I'm going to be worried about how I can ever win the game. What the British player who demands Sweden is saying is that he's happy to let France succeed simply to stop Russia. As Russia this is an attitude that is going to ruin my chances of winning. And 1805 is the best time to teach Britain that his attitude is counter-productive. The balance of power is more favorable for Russia than it will ever be, and there is more time to stop France once Britain sees the light.

I agree that Sweden is worth trading for early Russian participation in attacking France.

[McGuire]

ORIGINAL: Joisey

I agree that Sweden is worth trading for early Russian participation in attacking France.

I gave this some thought - and well I do not completely agree.
This trade would be problematic for RU at best.

1. Politics (1)
You'll have to ally with AU/PR - well no big deal. I did this from time to time, even without some kind of trade for Sweden.

2. Economics
To help in a way that really matters you'll have to be in the fighting zone in march. Otherwise, with some bad luck, the war might be already decided as you get to it! But this means marching your troops in the winter - and that is too expensive! RU can spend the money with much greater effect.

3. Military
You'll be forced to move the bulk of your forces down to the fighting zone to ensure you'll get some of them back. That leaves you weak against a Tu invasion. Which leads to:

4. Politics (4)
You cannot afford the TU rampaging through your territory. So you'll have to be on his good side. But for he is your source of PP - well, you'll have a problem there!


In the case I'd get such a proposal, I'd give a counter-proposal.

1. I secure the border to TU for AU. This way they don't have to hold back any army factors or even corps to secure that area.
2. I rush my cossacs to the FR-PR/AU border. Maybe they'll get there in time. Not for fighting but for Bocking/braking the french supply-lines.

And that's all I'd offer. Maybe they'll fall for it - maybe they won't.
But that's as much help as I can give AU/PR without weakening myself too much!

My two cents.

[Sardonic]

Eh?

Truthfully, no one is flush with cash at the start of the game.
France is gonna have a bit of trouble getting into Bavaria also.
So you have a small amount of time. NOT alot of time, but some.

Lets assume:

Britain says that it isnt worth listening to you whining and gives you Sweden, and takes Norway.
Ok now.....lets be honest....you OWE him participation.
As Britain, I cant stand to see players sit on their asses after spending my money.

So even ten points of infantry will help. Hell send twenty.

Turkey has so little cash, that you will watch his army attrit to death just getting to you.
He is much better off taking Syria.

And never welch on a deal. Nothing is more loathed than a liar.

Do what you promised you would. It makes you look good, in the end.

That is why I offer a bounty on french casualties. I always pay up.
If I have the cash, I may pay up to 5$ per dead french. (but that would be extraordinary)

The point is that they are dead. And France is under pressure.

[McGuire]

ORIGINAL: Sardonic
Lets assume:

Britain says that it isnt worth listening to you whining and gives you Sweden, and takes Norway.
Ok now.....lets be honest....you OWE him participation.

First: I don't really know about the whining part - but well!
Second: If I make a deal with GB - than it's a deal! I fulfill my side of the bargain and after that I OWE him a good hand of crap - no more!

ORIGINAL: Sardonic
As Britain, I cant stand to see players sit on their asses after spending my money.

Great, for RU didn't spend ANY of GB's money, this cannot relay to my prior post....

ORIGINAL: Sardonic
So even ten points of infantry will help. Hell send twenty.

Turkey has so little cash, that you will watch his army attrit to death just getting to you.
He is much better off taking Syria.

Absolutely and completely right!
RU starts with 92 army factors (including cossacs). Send ten, or maybe twenty and it leaves you 72 AFs.
An then TU comes with well let's say 139 AFs. Well I think a 2:1 advantage is worth going to a CP.
And then you stuck in a situation where you cannot declare war for 24 months and pay half your income to him - that's 37,5 GP.

And after hours and hours of calculation we see that Syria is the much better choice!
You get 3 gold and 4 manpower from Syria - and only 35 GP fropm RU. And for TU has so much money - Syria is the right choice!

NOT!
(by the way: this is called "sarcasm")

ORIGINAL: Sardonic
And never welch on a deal. Nothing is more loathed than a liar.

Do what you promised you would. It makes you look good, in the end.

Actually I didn't say anything about welching a deal! So this is not relayed to my post either, is it?

ORIGINAL: Sardonic
That is why I offer a bounty on french casualties. I always pay up.
If I have the cash, I may pay up to 5$ per dead french. (but that would be extraordinary)

The point is that they are dead. And France is under pressure.

I'm curious! Who's paying you that money?
Let's assue the following:
- You send 20 AFs
- PR/AU/FR send all their AFs

- FR: 157 AFs
- AU/PR: 197 AFs
- RU: 20 AFs

Thst's about 160 vs 220. And 1/11 of the FR casulties go onto your account.
Assuming half of the FR is slain, so you killed 7-8 AFs, right?
That's 21-24 GP counting with a 3$/casulty. With 5$ it's 35 - 40GP. That's just a guess, but even if AU and PR want to pay the price - they simply cannot afford it. Even with GB helping it's hard.
Just do some maths: That's the money for up to 13 Inf.

Just my two cents!
No wait! this is worth a bit more!

Just my dime!

[Sardonic]

ORIGINAL: McGuire


First: I don't really know about the whining part - but well!
Second: If I make a deal with GB - than it's a deal! I fulfill my side of the bargain and after that I OWE him a good hand of crap - no more!


Great, for RU didn't spend ANY of GB's money, this cannot relay to my prior post....

Absolutely and completely right!
RU starts with 92 army factors (including cossacs). Send ten, or maybe twenty and it leaves you 72 AFs.
An then TU comes with well let's say 139 AFs. Well I think a 2:1 advantage is worth going to a CP.
And then you stuck in a situation where you cannot declare war for 24 months and pay half your income to him - that's 37,5 GP.

And after hours and hours of calculation we see that Syria is the much better choice!
You get 3 gold and 4 manpower from Syria - and only 35 GP fropm RU. And for TU has so much money - Syria is the right choice!

NOT!
(by the way: this is called "sarcasm")


Actually I didn't say anything about welching a deal! So this is not relayed to my post either, is it?


I'm curious! Who's paying you that money?
Let's assue the following:
- You send 20 AFs
- PR/AU/FR send all their AFs

- FR: 157 AFs
- AU/PR: 197 AFs
- RU: 20 AFs

Thst's about 160 vs 220. And 1/11 of the FR casulties go onto your account.
Assuming half of the FR is slain, so you killed 7-8 AFs, right?
That's 21-24 GP counting with a 3$/casulty. With 5$ it's 35 - 40GP. That's just a guess, but even if AU and PR want to pay the price - they simply cannot afford it. Even with GB helping it's hard.
Just do some maths: That's the money for up to 13 Inf.

Just my two cents!
No wait! this is worth a bit more!

Just my dime!

No not all elements were in reply to your post.

I dont think that Turkey will have or maintain a 2/1 advantage on his own resources.
I dont think Turkey can solo force a surrender. So I am not worried about Turkey.
His army is crap. I can crush it.

As for the bounty...that would be as British.

[Joisey]

I agree, Russia just doesn't have to worry about Turkey at the beginning of the game.

Turkey has no money, so you can be sure those feudal troops will be taking foraging roll losses as they march into the Russian steppes. When they do, you get extra cossacks. At the beginning of the game, France will be too busy building out its corps to spare any for Turkey.

Yes, you may lose some local income for a short time, but when you clash with the Turk, you'll probably give him a good spanking so consider the lost gold your purchase price for political points.

Once his feudals have vaporized, it'll be the Turk asking for a CP.

I've never seen a game of EiA yet where the Turk passed up going for Syria and Egypt to pick a winter war with Russia out of the blocks.

Re: Russian participation against France. As GB, I would demand that Russia contribute AT LEAST an equal amount of troops as the fully built out Swedish Corps that they are getting in the deal. Ideally, I'd want the Russian to cough up 4 infantry corps, a calvary corp, and Kutusov.

[Sardonic]

ORIGINAL: Joisey

I agree, Russia just doesn't have to worry about Turkey at the beginning of the game.

Turkey has no money, so you can be sure those feudal troops will be taking foraging roll losses as they march into the Russian steppes. When they do, you get extra cossacks. At the beginning of the game, France will be too busy building out its corps to spare any for Turkey.

Yes, you may lose some local income for a short time, but when you clash with the Turk, you'll probably give him a good spanking so consider the lost gold your purchase price for political points.

Once his feudals have vaporized, it'll be the Turk asking for a CP.

I've never seen a game of EiA yet where the Turk passed up going for Syria and Egypt to pick a winter war with Russia out of the blocks.

Re: Russian participation against France. As GB, I would demand that Russia contribute AT LEAST an equal amount of troops as the fully built out Swedish Corps that they are getting in the deal. Ideally, I'd want the Russian to cough up 4 infantry corps, a calvary corp, and Kutusov.

With a pledge to replace my losses (if any) and to allow me to use my fleets in the Baltic to supply the advance,
sure why not? But I think Sweden is a bit weak at the start? I am unsure.

Of course this requires either Prussia or Austria dont object.
But Kutusov isnt gonna beat Nappy. Get over that.
I iwll send him sure, but he wont win.

[Joisey]

ORIGINAL: Sardonic

ORIGINAL: Joisey

I agree, Russia just doesn't have to worry about Turkey at the beginning of the game.

Turkey has no money, so you can be sure those feudal troops will be taking foraging roll losses as they march into the Russian steppes. When they do, you get extra cossacks. At the beginning of the game, France will be too busy building out its corps to spare any for Turkey.

Yes, you may lose some local income for a short time, but when you clash with the Turk, you'll probably give him a good spanking so consider the lost gold your purchase price for political points.

Once his feudals have vaporized, it'll be the Turk asking for a CP.

I've never seen a game of EiA yet where the Turk passed up going for Syria and Egypt to pick a winter war with Russia out of the blocks.

Re: Russian participation against France. As GB, I would demand that Russia contribute AT LEAST an equal amount of troops as the fully built out Swedish Corps that they are getting in the deal. Ideally, I'd want the Russian to cough up 4 infantry corps, a calvary corp, and Kutusov.

With a pledge to replace my losses (if any) and to allow me to use my fleets in the Baltic to supply the advance,
sure why not? But I think Sweden is a bit weak at the start? I am unsure.

Of course this requires either Prussia or Austria dont object.
But Kutusov isnt gonna beat Nappy. Get over that.
I iwll send him sure, but he wont win.

True enough, but he's better than the clunkers that Austria and Prussia has for leaders.

[McGuire]

ORIGINAL: Sardonic

I dont think that Turkey will have or maintain a 2/1 advantage on his own resources.
I dont think Turkey can solo force a surrender. So I am not worried about Turkey.
His army is crap. I can crush it.

As for the bounty...that would be as British.

In the example we had it actually is a 1,878:1 advantage (already including the new cossacs). An no one was talking about a solo work of TU. Me, as FR, I would gladly spend some $ on keeping RU out of the war! Even if it costs me a couple of INF or a CAV or two.
Just think of it: 2 less CAV on my side vs. 20 army-factors less on their side! I think it's worth it!

And yes, the TU army is crap (or maybe even worse)! But in our example I think it could work out for TU. And even if it doesn't come to a CP. It will hurt RU a great deal!

About the new cossacs...
They are just 1 army factor. They can be really annoying, but if you do some good logistics they are not too much trouble after all!

But I must admit:
I've never seen it been done - and there has to be some luck on the side of TU.
Just have seen the thread of it once - that's all.

Maybe I'll try it next time! [:)]

[morvwilson]

I have been reading all of these entries, damn it puts me in the mood for a game!
I am typically a quiet french player, usually not even declaring any pre-existing dow's, for about the first year. It takes time to fill out the guard and artillery! then look out!
I normally let the pr and au players romp around in the germanies and italy, I can clean them out later. I usually try to get spain and turkey as allies.
 
 
Hey anyone on the west coast?[8D]

[morvwilson]

By the way, the Turkish army may look like crap but don't under estimate chit and luck. As Turkey I once destroyed a Russian stack of 40 factors with feudal corps. On another occasion I put Wellington to flight at Oran with the Nezami Cedid and Syrian Calvary!

[yammahoper]

Fr should always hit Pr in 1805.  Pr has awful leaders, making conquest of Pr that much easier.  From 1806 on, Pr has Blucher, a fine general.
 
yamma

[morvwilson]

Yes, when I play prussia an can't wait to retire the old men I have as leaders once Blucher arrives! But as the French, in the grand campaign (1805 on) you start nearly at the top of the political point scale. So, with france I don't go to war so much to gain pp but to denie it to others. Typically I start france with most of the inf in garrison (avoid atrit and cost in maintaining corp). I place nappy with the art and guard corp in Strassbourg along with a healthy amount of cav. and inf. garrison. This gives nappy the best flexibility to hit either Austria or Prussia. Then I place Soult with a cav. corp and health inf. gar. in Kleves and Davout with the same in Lombardy. The rest of the inf I garrison in paris and where ever the fleet is. With this set up I can save $ for use in building the guard and art. Maybe a little left to finance some turkish mischief. I can also negotiate with au and pr about dividing up germany and italy. A few quarters of econ manip. and france can be at the top of the pp scale and thereafter only need denie pp to the other powers. Also bear in mind I NEVER bid more then single digits for getting any country.

[morvwilson]

I am a nice frenchy, really! I would never hurt my Germanic neighbors![;)] It's all greedy Britian and Russia's Fault!

[Joisey]

I believe it is important as France to not let the Austrian and Prussian armies link up.  Move quickly and destroy one or the other, it doesn't really matter which one.
 
France must set the tempo of combat right away and never let it's adversaries recover.  Keeping it's neighbors on staggered forced peace conditions guarantees that they can never form an effective coalition against France.
 
I also like to cultivate Spain as an ally at the outset.  It's a pain in the butt to have to invade Spain, and gaining the Spanish fleet gives France the only real chance it will have during the game to challenge British naval supremacy.  It has to be done at the beginning, before Britain starts laying keels down.  France will never catch up in the naval arms race.
 
Ussually, Spain demurs, but every once in awhile you'll get a Spanish player with cajones.  The naval battle will be a matter of pure luck, but if you win, you'll win big.
 
I'll treat Turkey as an ally as France, but really it's ussually nothing but a dance.  A good Turkish player will play both sides for maximum benefit.  Any Turk who aspires to put together the Ottoman Empire will ultimately hesitate to cross the British navy, however, as the Royal Navy will utlimately control the Med.

[megalomania2003]

ORIGINAL: Joisey
I believe it is important as France to not let the Austrian and Prussian armies link up.  Move quickly and destroy one or the other, it doesn't really matter which one.

But how, any intelligent Austrian and Prussian players will set up so that they can join before France can reach them

ORIGINAL: Joisey
Ussually, Spain demurs, but every once in awhile you'll get a Spanish player with cajones. The naval battle will be a matter of pure luck, but if you win, you'll win big.

What about the Russian navy - what will you promise the russian? Allied to Spain and France it will actually give a good chance of victory, Allied to Great Britain it will doom thos chances.

[McGuire]

First things first:
It's been a long time since I've played FR. I prefer going against Napi to playing him...
But now to the point:

ORIGINAL: Joisey
I believe it is important as France to not let the Austrian and Prussian armies link up. Move quickly and destroy one or the other, it doesn't really matter which one.

Total agree! If you can get RU or TU to aid you - choose the enemy they can help you with. If neither is going to help you, I'd always prefer AU. In the beginning they are the stonger part - in my opinion!

ORIGINAL: Joisey
I also like to cultivate Spain as an ally at the outset. It's a pain in the butt to have to invade Spain, and gaining the Spanish fleet gives France the only real chance it will have during the game to challenge British naval supremacy. It has to be done at the beginning, before Britain starts laying keels down. France will never catch up in the naval arms race.

I had a deal with SP when I last played FR. I promised and gave them most of Italy! For a little help against AU and keeping GB off my back! SP is never a naval match to GB, but GB will be pretty cautious to put lots of his few army factors on ships when you've got the SP and FR armadas lying nearby...

After the PR/AU-problem is done, you can even help him in Africa. TU is going to be baught by GB in the long run! It's better to make him stay low!

ORIGINAL: Joisey
Ussually, Spain demurs, but every once in awhile you'll get a Spanish player with cajones. The naval battle will be a matter of pure luck, but if you win, you'll win big.

I don't think it'll work out with only FR & SP fleets. You should have someone else on your side (e.g. RU). If you don't I think it's not worth it! The thread to sink his fleets as soon as he gets troops on them far outweights the risk of giving him the total naval advantage!
If you'll get RU to sign on - CRUSH HIM!

ORIGINAL: Joisey
I'll treat Turkey as an ally as France, but really it's ussually nothing but a dance. A good Turkish player will play both sides for maximum benefit. Any Turk who aspires to put together the Ottoman Empire will ultimately hesitate to cross the British navy, however, as the Royal Navy will utlimately control the Med.

As seen above - I disagree! Like you said: TU is playing both sides! Build up SP and make him an ally for sure! He'll never gain from a war against you! But he can gain BIG TIME by being you ally! I'll pick this one up later.
Keep Tu to the ground and you might even get RU to help you! SP gets North-Africa - Ru gets some provinces from TU and you'll get the PPs! Now that's a deal I can live with! And I think there is no better fight than a dominant FR against a TU that is in a three front war....

Now back to the benefits of SP being your ally! The situation is something like this (long time ago, SRY):
Alliances: FR-SP, AU-PR
Wars: FR-GB, SP-TU, FR-TU, GB-SP

I crushed AU/PR with some luck! Cond. surr. from PR / AU didn't want it... so: unconditional. But I was fair with them. So they were quiet for 24/26 months (and got passage through AU).
SP and I were massing our fleets near GB and he was concentrating his forces there too. There was just 1 small fleet of mine in Marseilles - which I took to block Gibraltar - SP from the land side. After 2 turns of starving there SP moved in and voila - Gibraltar was spanish.

Believe me - things like this make an ally stick with you to the end! Whichever it is!