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[MarkShot]

Robin and Eddy,

If you guys keep this up, nous allons besoin de sub-forum francaise!

Actually, speaking of non-English forums, I was very impressed when AGEOD switched over beta discussions from French to English to expand accessibility of the beta testing program.

Side note: I am an AGEOD ( makers of www.birth-of-america.com ) beta tester (however, I don't contribute much) and Robin is Art Director for AGEOD.

We in the USA have been led to believe that the French are very snobish when it comes to their language and culture. So, I was really struck that a company of French developers (and prior beta testers) would so inconvenience themselves to work with non-French speaking volunteers as to switch to speaking English. I must say bravo! In one grand gesture, every stereotype of the French people that I have been exposed to immediately became suspect.

Despite PG's focus on WWII on battles which always seem to have German forces, I don't see PG and the beta program switching over to German anytime in the near future. In fact, I am sure that it has been a blessing for us that the written word is our main form of communications or I think the various accents might have been a challenge. Of course, it did take me a year or two to get up to speed on British/Australian slang.

PS: Robin - don't forget my French magazines with the COTA articles!

[Arjuna]

Ah yes but languages was never my strong suit. I think it was because I was forced to do Latin and French at junior highschool. I kicked up enough fuss and was eventually allowed to substitute geography for Latin but I had to still carry on with French. I struggled through for a modified pass after four years. I did manage to get by in Greece when I visited there in '79 using just a travel guide phrase book. That was fun. I think it makes all the difference if there is a real need to communicate.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
We in the USA have been led to believe that the French are very snobish when it comes to their language and culture. So, I was really struck that a company of French developers (and prior beta testers) would so inconvenience themselves to work with non-French speaking volunteers as to switch to speaking English. I must say bravo! In one grand gesture, every stereotype of the French people that I have been exposed to immediately became suspect.

You've only met the good guys yet - wait 'til you have to deal with Parisians [;)]

Seriously : stereotypes exist because our minds are very adapt at categorizing stuff so as to be better at making snap decisions. Dangerous animal / food. Guy in friendly clan colours / possibly dangerous stranger etc. It's maybe not very nice, but the mind works by putting everything in categories for easy and fast data-retrieval.

If real first-hand information on a group of people is scarce, the mind puts them all into the same category, when you get to know them better more (sub)categories come into existence and for a small group of people you know very well each one will have it's own category, i.e. be an individual to you.

It works this way for collegues at work, guys at the wargame club etc.

Another thing to note is that the things you notice/remember about another group of people is what makes you different from them. [the rest is a waste of data-storage] This is a different experience depending on what culture you start from. For instance : A USA-nian's attention is drawn to the fact the French eat snails. We do too so *our* sterotype of the French does not include "snail eating" as something typically French.

With half my wife's family being French and us spending our summer holidays in various parts of France I got to know them pretty well - and I still can't stand those Parisian snobs - as a broad category of course [;)]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
Despite PG's focus on WWII on battles which always seem to have German forces, I don't see PG and the beta program switching over to German anytime in the near future.

Didn't you know Marc Schwanebeck is plotting a coup ? - he promised me a position as Feldwebel if I would support him [;)]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
In fact, I am sure that it has been a blessing for us that the written word is our main form of communications or I think the various accents might have been a challenge. Of course, it did take me a year or two to get up to speed on British/Australian slang.

I'm afraid working with USA-nians, Englishmen and Aussies has only reinforced the stereotypes I had of them [:D]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[RayWolfe]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Seriously : stereotypes exist because our minds are very adapt at categorizing stuff so as to be better at making snap decisions. Dangerous animal / food. Guy in friendly clan colours / possibly dangerous stranger etc. It's maybe not very nice, but the mind works by putting everything in categories for easy and fast data-retrieval.

You're so right. I used to think that Belgian, Dutch, Germans and French were really nice people ... until I met you lot earlier this year. [:'(]
Ray

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Seriously : stereotypes exist because our minds are very adapt at categorizing stuff so as to be better at making snap decisions. Dangerous animal / food. Guy in friendly clan colours / possibly dangerous stranger etc. It's maybe not very nice, but the mind works by putting everything in categories for easy and fast data-retrieval.

You're so right. I used to think that Belgian, Dutch, Germans and French were really nice people ... until I met you lot earlier this year. [:'(]
Ray

Let's face it Ray, you were quiet unlucky to end up with such a freak sample of Europeans. Freak sample in more ways than one [;)]

But you took it well - stiff upper lip and all that. Keeping cool, calm and collected when all around you pandemonium broke lose because a King Tiger had the wrong type of muzzle flash.

Hereby totally demolishing my stereotypical view of the English as a raging mob of kidney pie eating drunken louts.

I'll be in London again in two months time, let's see if the stereotype gets reinforced again [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Robin le guetteur]

@ Dave, Eddy, Mark, our magazines, Cyberstrateges, will be sent today (the chief redactor had forget to send them before).

@ Eddy, about Parisians, you must know that even french people can't stand by the parisian snobism. And perhaps, it's the same against the people living in such are like New york, Amsterdam or Berlin, no ?

@ Mark : your words about the Ageod team are like "honey for my ears" (du miel pour les oreilles)... Remember me to put a special Easter Egg for you in our next game !

@ Arjuna : To perfect your french, be welcome in France ! Why not for a future visit in the "Ardennes" while preparing the Bulges opus of AA ?

[;)]

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Robin le guetteur
@ Dave, Eddy, Mark, our magazines, Cyberstrateges, will be sent today (the chief redactor had forget to send them before).

Ok - that means that given the "speed" of our postal services it'll arrive somewhere in the next two weeks.

ORIGINAL: Robin le guetteur
@ Eddy, about Parisians, you must know that even french people can't stand by the parisian snobism.

Yup [:D] - but it's a perfect example of how stereotypes can be benificial to people : if you're already halfway prepared for the waiter being rude it won't ruin your meal and if you meet one which is actually polite (it has to happen someday, I've only been to Paris like 3 times) it actually brightens your day.

ORIGINAL: Robin le guetteur
And perhaps, it's the same against the people living in such are like New york, Amsterdam or Berlin, no ?

Every city has a certain ambiance which is a combination of the cityscape and the people living in it - and everyone experiences a city differently - most Belgians don't like Brussels, I lived there and liked it.

ORIGINAL: Robin le guetteur
@ Arjuna : To perfect your french, be welcome in France ! Why not for a future visit in the "Ardennes" while preparing the Bulges opus of AA ?

That's what we keep telling him. And he keeps mumbling something about needing the money to pay the bills and advancing the engine. After the Bulge game is out and he's sold a million units, thanks to another glowing review by you of course, it might become a possibility [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[oldspec4]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Ah yes but languages was never my strong suit. I think it was because I was forced to do Latin and French at junior highschool. I kicked up enough fuss and was eventually allowed to substitute geography for Latin but I had to still carry on with French. I struggled through for a modified pass after four years. I did manage to get by in Greece when I visited there in '79 using just a travel guide phrase book. That was fun. I think it makes all the difference if there is a real need to communicate.

Another Latin student!? I had 3 years of the language in high school (thought that I was going to medical school) but decided on a different career path. As a former US Army grunt stationed in Germany 35+ years ago, I was fortunate to have the time to travel much of Western Europe. The thing that still stands out to me is the ability of many Europeans to speak or have an understanding of multiple languages. I knew enough "guide book" phrases to get by had very few negative experiences w/ people of any country. But have always thought that the US school system was/is far behind in the language teaching area. Having been married into a Spanish speaking family "forced" me learn some of the basics of that language. Had to know when they said bad things about me!!

[alaric99x]

About the French:
 
I live close to France and I've been there on at least 20 trips over the last 4 or 5 years, I'm in the process of doing a recon of the entire country.  I'm a US citizen and I speak US English every time I'm there, those people can easily tell where I'm from.  In spite of the fact that relations between our countries haven't exactly been a political love affair over the past few years, I've never encountered a French person who was rude or unfriendly to me.  Of course, merchants and restaurant personnel will generally try to be friendly because they want our money, but I've asked for directions on the street and had other encounters with people and they've always been friendly and tried to be helpful, using whatever English they knew.
 
I'm also impressed by the numberous memorials in that country honoring the US soldiers who helped free the place during two world wars.
 
Maybe I'm biased because I also eat snails and like them very much.
 
One final thing; these comments don't include Paris.  I haven't been to Paris for over 20 years, but thanks for the warning.   

[BAL]

ORIGINAL: alaric99x

About the French:

I live close to France and I've been there on at least 20 trips over the last 4 or 5 years, I'm in the process of doing a recon of the entire country.  I'm a US citizen and I speak US English every time I'm there, those people can easily tell where I'm from.  In spite of the fact that relations between our countries haven't exactly been a political love affair over the past few years, I've never encountered a French person who was rude or unfriendly to me.  Of course, merchants and restaurant personnel will generally try to be friendly because they want our money, but I've asked for directions on the street and had other encounters with people and they've always been friendly and tried to be helpful, using whatever English they knew.

I'm also impressed by the numberous memorials in that country honoring the US soldiers who helped free the place during two world wars.

Maybe I'm biased because I also eat snails and like them very much.

One final thing; these comments don't include Paris.  I haven't been to Paris for over 20 years, but thanks for the warning.   

It's the governments that don't get along. At the individual level there generally isn't a problem & most people are friendly...especially if they want your money. [;)]

[MarkShot]

<back to the original topic and post>

I was unaware of the Prosim products: BCT, ATF, and AATF. However, I took a quick look at some reviews and downloaded the demos (although I haven't really tried them).

So, what is the general impression of these products? Do they compare favorably with this series? There didn't to be many scenarios available for download (similar to this series), correct? How is the replayability with scenarios? How is the friendly and OPFOR AI?

Thanks.

[Crimguy]

I found BCT to be a very challenging game.&nbsp; Winning or losing in many ways depends on coordination of your arty and ground forces (like real-life).

Just about the biggest challenge was the interface, and understanding what was going on.&nbsp; Definitely worth getting - try to get one of the old titles for cheap for starters.

[HansBolter]

I had never heard of Birth of America before reading this thread. I have been toying with the idea of purchasing a game caled For Liberty that I stumbled upon on the internet as I have a passing interest in that era and campaign. I'll have to give Birth of America a look before deciding what to buy.

Is anyone familiar with For Liberty? It can be found here: http://www.battlefront.com/products/for ... /news.html

[MarkShot]

Both games have free demos. Also, the complete user manuals are freely available to help with your decision.

I am a BoA beta tester, but I think which one you choose largely comes down to preferred format:

BoA: Regions + WEGO

FL: Hexes + Turns

Other observations: BoA is widely regarded as having outstanding artwork and an intuitive UI along with a good AI. FL artwork and UI is functional, but will not be winning any awards and I have heard that the AI is also good. Only FL offers tactical battles or auto-resolution (similiar in concept to the Total War series); although I hear that the tactical battles get monotonous after a while. Both games actually offer an additional full campaign beyond the Revolution; BoA - The French and Indian War, FL - The Hungarian Revolution. (I believe that AGEOD intends to offer the War of 1812 as a free upgrade campaign down the road.) Based on the FL demo, I would say that BoA is more hardware intensive than FL in terms of memory and CPU.

I hope that helped.

[HansBolter]

Thanks for the info Mark.

Being an old hex board gamer I actually like FLs graphics.

I downloaded the demo but haven't installed it yet.

I tended to get bored with TWs tactical battles and played it for the strategy side of the game and would probably do the same with FL.

I'll have to get a copy of the BOA demo.

Hardware shouldn't be a problem as I half completed a major hardware upgrade last weekend.

I went froma 3 year old Athalon 2700 w/ 1g of 333mghz ram and an AGP Geforce 5600 256mb graphics card to an Athalon 64 X2 4200+ w/ 1g of 800mghz ram (planning to double next month) and a PCIE Geforce 7950TX OC 512mb DDR3 graphics card. All I need to complete the upgrade is to doiuble the ram and replace my old ATA133 hard drive with a new SATA/300 drive. I hope to have the revamped platform completed by year end.

I shouldn't have to worry about cpu crunch on those large COTA scenarios anymore!

[Arjuna]

Merrill,
&nbsp;
You bugger. Your old machine is my current machine, well almost ( mines using a 2600 P4 ). [:@]&nbsp;[;)]
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

[Crimguy]

Yeah mine's not too far off from his old one.&nbsp; But being a flight simmer, the latest iteration of Flight simulator gets my wallet out for (otherwise) needless upgrades.&nbsp; Apparently FSX is making all but the very newest gear seem like Pentium III's.