Tutorial #4

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
I think that the unit size information should still be shown in this last tutorial screen. For stacking purposes the visual knowledge of which units are Division sized is important.  The Russians do have some units that one might think are Divison sized but are not.
Lars

I wholeheartly agree.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

I think that the unit size information should still be shown in this last tutorial screen. For stacking purposes the visual knowledge of which units are Division sized is important.  The Russians do have some units that one might think are Divison sized but are not.

Lars

Could you provide examples? I have been trying to make all divisional units have different colors for their NATO symbol.

While there appears to be room for the x's in this screen shot (Z4), at Z3 and Z2, where I expect some players will use medium resolution, they would just be a smudge.

----------
Patrice,

The player will be able to assign the default unit resoultion for each zoom level. And override (or change) those settings whenever he wants. That was what I was trying to say somewhere in there. Since I have plenty of room for more text, I'll make it clearer.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is the missing (final) page for this tutorial. The screen shots are old, which is why the top 3 don't match the bottom one (which is in the new style).

I was going to talk about reserve units here but there wasn't room. I'll do that later.

[lomyrin]

In the Russia forcepool there are 2 2factor CAV units that are not Divisions.

Those, as well as any number or 3 and 4 factor Inf and Mech and Armor units that have been added into the game by unit breakdowns can be confused with corps sized units if there are no unit level markings on them at say zoom level 4.


Lars

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
In the Russia forcepool there are 2 2factor CAV units that are not Divisions.

Those, as well as any number or 3 and 4 factor Inf and Mech and Armor units that have been added into the game by unit breakdowns can be confused with corps sized units if there are no unit level markings on them at say zoom level 4.

Lars

Yes. That was a problem in CWIF. I have changed the interior coloring for the divisions though (they roughly match those of WIF FE). So the players should be able to tell them apart by color (and for the color blind, the brightness is different). I think the divisions stand out pretty well based on color.

For example, as they appear in page 9 of 9 for this tutorial (#4) both the Russian and the German divisions are quite different from the corps/army/army group sized units. In fact, I rely on the color more than I do the number of x's above the NATO symbol when looking at units in high resolution.

Not that I want to remove the unit size. It is just that I don't think it will be detectable/helpful at zoom level 2. At that level, the numbers are hard to read on medium resolution units. If I added the x's, they would be 1/4 the size of the numbers - just a blur.

[lomyrin]

OK, I see your point with the Russian units on page 9 of 9, The German Divisions are harder to see as different, their interior color is the same as the whiteprint corps units.
 
Lars
 
 

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
OK, I see your point with the Russian units on page 9 of 9, The German Divisions are harder to see as different, their interior color is the same as the whiteprint corps units.

Lars

The colors for the regular corps, elite, and divisions were all created simultaneously and laid out side by side back in January/February. I was especially careful that the color blind players could tell them all apart.

The only issue I have left on my task list for unit colors is to review all the minor countries and make sure we don't have any black font on navy blue backgrounds remaining (e.g., Netherlands). There are some other hard to read color combinations too as I recall, but only a half dozen or so. For the major powers, I am extremely unlikely to change the colors at this point.

[pak19652002]

And we love you for it!

I was especially careful that the color blind players could tell them all apart.

[pak19652002]

On a more serious note, I can't tell one bit of difference between the division and corps sized units on 9 of 9. Color and brightness look the same. I don't think it's a big deal, though, since you can zoom in to count the xxxs or wave the cursor over the unit to see it in the unit screen on the bottom. Also, memory comes into play.

Still, I'm surprised a little that you dumped all the detail even at this zoom level. I haven't been following it too closely so I guess you had your reasons.

But, bottom line is I think the div/corps differentiation scheme fails for the colorblind, but it is not a show stopper.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
In the Russia forcepool there are 2 2factor CAV units that are not Divisions.

Those, as well as any number or 3 and 4 factor Inf and Mech and Armor units that have been added into the game by unit breakdowns can be confused with corps sized units if there are no unit level markings on them at say zoom level 4.

Lars

Yes. That was a problem in CWIF. I have changed the interior coloring for the divisions though (they roughly match those of WIF FE). So the players should be able to tell them apart by color (and for the color blind, the brightness is different). I think the divisions stand out pretty well based on color.

For example, as they appear in page 9 of 9 for this tutorial (#4) both the Russian and the German divisions are quite different from the corps/army/army group sized units. In fact, I rely on the color more than I do the number of x's above the NATO symbol when looking at units in high resolution.

Not that I want to remove the unit size. It is just that I don't think it will be detectable/helpful at zoom level 2. At that level, the numbers are hard to read on medium resolution units. If I added the x's, they would be 1/4 the size of the numbers - just a blur.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Last in the series. This screen shot did not have to be modified to fit on the page.

Perhaps the bit about the Rumanians could be put as something like...

"Try to identify the Rumanian HQ and militia units and the 4 types of terrain in the picture."

As it is currently written, someone who can't identify said units might feel a bit foolish and disheartened.

Cheers, Neilster

[Froonp]

On a more serious note, I can't tell one bit of difference between the division and corps sized units on 9 of 9. Color and brightness look the same. I don't think it's a big deal, though, since you can zoom in to count the xxxs or wave the cursor over the unit to see it in the unit screen on the bottom. Also, memory comes into play.

I (not color blind) can tell the DIV and corps appart from the color.

Still, I'm surprised a little that you dumped all the detail even at this zoom level. I haven't been following it too closely so I guess you had your reasons.

I asked this already, and Steve answered :
***************************
Patrice,

The player will be able to assign the default unit resoultion for each zoom level. And override (or change) those settings whenever he wants. That was what I was trying to say somewhere in there. Since I have plenty of room for more text, I'll make it clearer.
***************************

[trees trees]

won't the computer enforce stacking limits anyway? that should sort out most corps/division questions? for pretty much everything except 2d10 blitz bonuses I would think, and choice of combat table. I would hope the computer by default would place division sized units on top of a given land stack, with the option to change default stacking priorities to suit the players' taste.

The Morocco TERRitorial should have an "MOR" on it if abbreviated, not "MAR".

And the Seoul MIL probably shouldn't have a "KOR" on it as it is a Japanese unit for all purposes.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: trees trees
won't the computer enforce stacking limits anyway? that should sort out most corps/division questions? for pretty much everything except 2d10 blitz bonuses I would think, and choice of combat table. I would hope the computer by default would place division sized units on top of a given land stack, with the option to change default stacking priorities to suit the players' taste.

The Morocco TERRitorial should have an "MOR" on it if abbreviated, not "MAR".

And the Seoul MIL probably shouldn't have a "KOR" on it as it is a Japanese unit for all purposes.

I took the 3 letter abbreviations for all the countries (100+) from some official document - I'll look up which. There are many countries with similar names so the abbreviations aren't always what you would expect at first.

If Korea is conquered and the Seoul Militia destroyed, isn't it removed from the force pool?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: trees trees
won't the computer enforce stacking limits anyway? that should sort out most corps/division questions? for pretty much everything except 2d10 blitz bonuses I would think, and choice of combat table. I would hope the computer by default would place division sized units on top of a given land stack, with the option to change default stacking priorities to suit the players' taste.
The Morocco TERRitorial should have an "MOR" on it if abbreviated, not "MAR".

And the Seoul MIL probably shouldn't have a "KOR" on it as it is a Japanese unit for all purposes.

I took the 3 letter abbreviations for all the countries (100+) from some official document - I'll look up which. There are many countries with similar names so the abbreviations aren't always what you would expect at first.

You took it from the International Olympic Committee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IOC_country_codes)
Morocco is abbreviated MAR.

If Korea is conquered and the Seoul Militia destroyed, isn't it removed from the force pool?

Quote from RAW :
*******************************
19.13 MIL units
All MIL that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country are units of that minor county. All other MIL are major power units.
*******************************
So the Korean MIL is a Korean Unit, because Korea is an Aligned Minor Country of Japan.
Same for Manchurian MIL.
Same for the Burmese MIL.

On the other hand, the Paris German MIL on the other hand, is a German unit, as France is usually a conquered country, not aligned.
The INA MIL is the same, Japanese unit, as it comes in a conquered Calcutta.

When Korea is conquered, it is completely conquered (as Korea controls no Minor Country), so all Korean units are removed from the game during the conquest Phase. The Korean MIL cannot survive to Korea conquest, it is removed from the game, even if defending Truk.

[jesperpehrson]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: trees trees
won't the computer enforce stacking limits anyway? that should sort out most corps/division questions? for pretty much everything except 2d10 blitz bonuses I would think, and choice of combat table. I would hope the computer by default would place division sized units on top of a given land stack, with the option to change default stacking priorities to suit the players' taste.

The Morocco TERRitorial should have an "MOR" on it if abbreviated, not "MAR".

And the Seoul MIL probably shouldn't have a "KOR" on it as it is a Japanese unit for all purposes.

I took the 3 letter abbreviations for all the countries (100+) from some official document - I'll look up which. There are many countries with similar names so the abbreviations aren't always what you would expect at first.

If Korea is conquered and the Seoul Militia destroyed, isn't it removed from the force pool?

In most European languages Morrocko is written Mar* (Marrocko, Marruecos, Maroc, Marokko, Marocco and so on) so maybe this would be the official abbreviation. Either way it matters very little no?

[Mziln]

All the sites I have checked use a 2 character country codes and Morocco is MA.

[trees trees]

sigh. 2 games a year for a long time now and I'm still learning rules. one of the last in the book, a tough one to recall.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

All the sites I have checked use a 2 character country codes and Morocco is MA.

We are using a 3-metter abbreviation.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: trees trees

sigh. 2 games a year for a long time now and I'm still learning rules. one of the last in the book, a tough one to recall.

And so am I. [:D]

[Froonp]

Statistics about MWiF Land Units.