Empire of the Sun - Tag Team - New Japanese AAR

[el cid again]

General Yamashita and Admiral Yamamoto have formed a joint planning team to define a coordinated Imperial strategy. The first task is to review existing planning and decide if it should be retained, or revised?

There evolved four hats on the Japanese team - and in fact we could farm out two of them to additional players.
The hats were:

1) Army (meaning Continental and flank) regional commander;

2) Navy (meaning Oceanic and most Island area) regional commander;

3) Grand Escort Command

4) Economic Tzar

Capt. Nemo agreed to handle 1 and 4, while I did 2 and 3. We can keep these seats or revise them.
For example, if Mifune did Grand Escort Command, he would have a naval force in addition to those involved with operations in the North and West, leading to more balanced control of naval units. I don't think it matters who does economics, but it is easier not to attempt to divide it IMHO. The other player can submit a list of priorites to whoever does it. What do you prefer?

Non-standard operations:

We had planned to go considerably beyond the historical Centrafugal Offensive in all directions, including:

1) Occupation of Hawaii;

2) Occupation of Ceylon;

3) Occupation of Noumea/Fiji area;

4) Occupation of Darwin area;

5) Conquest of all of China except its Western wilderness;

6) Conquest of Siberia except its Central Asian area;

I think we should review 1 and 2 above, and reduce the scale of operations in China to just the line defined by the railroad from SE Asia to Peking. Linking NE Asia, East China and SE Asia by rail is a significant strategy - one that permits moving resources and supplies in a way submarines and mines to not threaten. It permits us to claim de facto victory in China without the need to operate deep in the mountains with major forces on long supply lines. It is unclear to me how far Nemo planned to go in the USSR? But assuming it was farther than necessary, I think the historical Japanese plan is sufficient: Chita can be the advanced air base. Tie them up to the area around Lake Baikal, from which no wide offensive is practical.

[John 3rd]

The two of you have my best wishes upon your Glorious path to victory!

I think you are correct to scale back your China Operations. You can clear out the railine and then slowly withdraw your units to augment your Pacific operations

This has been my pattern in my Campaign with Wolfpack. We have reached Dec 8, 1943 and I have (to date) withdrawn 5 Inf Div and 7 Brigades. While not able to do much against the Chinese Hordes, these forces allow me considerably more punch and defensive firepower.

For what it is worth...

[el cid again]

Thanks. One of the things I want to know about is how strong is China now? Nemo insisted he could conquer the place "easily." It should not be so, and I have taken steps to make it harder than it was in CHS. [CHS also has made similar setps. Andrew roughed up the terrain - but chose forrest where I put mountains, etc]

How effective are the guerilla regiments?

[el cid again]

Do you want to change any of the aircraft that we changed for Nemo - or do you like his choices? He prefers twin engine fighter bombers - and I think they are resource inefficient. [Fighter bombers are not as effective as fighters or bombers - according to the manal, and they require two engines - for which we can get a real bomber - or two fighters - both of which are more effective IMHO]

IF you do - we will also look at upgrading Allied planes again. They never took advantage of that much.

[Mifune]

As far as aircraft goes. I need a couple of days when I get back home to review the lastest version of EOS.

[Mifune]

"I think we should review 1 and 2 above, and reduce the scale of operations in China" I do agree with your assesment. Let us see what the Imperial War Planning Board has to offer.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Mifune

As far as aircraft goes. I need a couple of days when I get back home to review the lastest version of EOS.

Too bad. Unless we delay this thing - I am freezing aircraft (and all un-Madagascar related stuff) - probably tomorrow - at x.35 level. We had changed enough that Nemo - the ultimate JFB IMHO - was worried we had unbalanced the game. [I don't think he entirely understands how many planes the Allies get. And he writes he just quadrupled this for his mod. for big bombers.] But still - because of the new loadout thing - and a request to reveiw SB2C - I have been reviewing smaller bombers - which I never did as such (I did a big bomber study for CHS) -
and I have been increasing their loads in a number of cases.

[Mifune]

That is fine with me then, I will sort things out once I get back home. I am sure it is quite workable and I am not worried about it at this time. I am hoping to see version 7 in my inbox once I return. [;)]

[el cid again]

Nemo and I created 4 hats:

1) Army operations on the mainland

2) Navy operations on to seaward

3) Production Tzar

4) Grand Escort Command.

Mifune writes he wishes to do 1 and 4. This is a switching of hats slightly -
as Nemo did 1 and 3. But it is fine by me.

[Mifune]

Yes those "hats" would seem to be the best fit. Assets can change depending on tatical and strategic needs, but the responsibilities are set.

[Mifune]

I will start with a review of our forces so we can communicate with each other with our intentions. I for one can surmise some of your opening moves but I certainly am unaware of your overall initial intention and magnitude of certain deployments.

[huggarn]

I would like to see how you will optimize the produktion output, regarding the AC. And how you upgrade all the factories, closes them.
Are you having PDU on?

[el cid again]

Translation please: What is a PDU? I know I had one around here somewhere.

In general, I consider suspending major gunships - so as not to spend HI points on them during the critical early game period. I also generally minimize construction - the opposite of AI's "expand everything possible everywhere."
I do not expand HI plants - but I might expand an armaments plant in a place rich in HI/supply points and with small ones already (e.g. Fusan or Mukden). I put most of my effort into aircraft production - tracking its status daily - and attempting a balance between modernizing towards the new best standard for any function WHILE maintaining old units at (or building up toward) full strength. I don't like the approach of only building new plane types nor of over concentration on any plane type. Not for me building all 4 engine bombers - nor all fighters - nor all anything. Nor even mostly. Details will follow - when I finish working the mod.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

PDU - Player Defined Upgrades

I have one question. Does in RHS any unit arrives with G5 or other 4E bombers? If I don't like 4E's and I chose to not produce it at all - will I loose any unit (because it will not enter the game without planes for it)?

[Mifune]

As far as I recalled PDU is on unless there was a post that I might have missed.

[Mifune]

As far as settings and house rules go is this the most current? (copied from another thread except 1 day turns which was added) Settings:

PDU ON

Japanese sub doctrine off

Allied sub doctrine off

no change to reinforcement times
Dec. 7th surprise on

1 Day turns
House rules:

Prime Directive: "If a historical commander would not do it in YOUR opinion, don't YOU do it."

Soviet Union active from 7th December 41, but not at war with Japan. Common sense applies here!

No limitations on PT boats, ASW TFs
No limits on Japanese port attacks and landings on turn 1, as the Allies can move all ships/create TFs on turn 1 (keep prime directive in mind!).
No house rule regarding PT boats in mixed task forces [Cid turned down a house rule, as this is in his opinion covered by the prime directive. In other words: don't do it because of the bug!]




IF there is an actual consensus - it need not be unanimous. I prefer this. But if everyone else wants a rule I will go along with one.


China is already in the war, and all units are free to move [basically, this applies to all nations now, right?]

NOT however to imply that units may cross the lines before the game begins. You may go toward your rear - not the enemy rear. No one can contest pre game movement - so there must be no one to contest it or you can't do it.



Japanese tankers appearing 2 weeks after the start of the game may NOT be accelerated. These ships carry fuel that permits Kiddo Butai to start in mid ocean.
RTN ships appearing the day after Thailand enters the war (411222) may NOT be accelerated. That is, the RTN does NOT go to war before the country does (rather after). [Thai armed forces actually resisted Japanese incursions for some days, and a number of fighters were shot down - which are absent from the game].
IJN submarines able to operate the E14Y1 Glen can operate different planes in the sense code permits it. Since in fact this was not possible, it should not be allowed. [Note however that I-12 and I-400 type subs able to operate M6A1 float bombers DID operate other floatplanes - so that is not forbidden].
A single engine bomber unit should not upgrade directly to a four engine bomber unit. It should first upgrade to a twin engine bomber and operate that for at least 30 days (new, created by Nemo, to restrict his Ki-32/30 units - but in fairness it should apply to Allied single engine bombers as well).
The IJA First Independent Artillery Company is a railroad unit and never moves off a rail line. The IJA Second Independent Artillery Company is very heavy - as are a number of other Japanese artillery "regiments" (battalions) - with 24cm guns. These units should only move on a road or a rail line.
If it violates the laws of physics, it isn't allowed. [That is, no transfers of fixed coast defense guns between West Coast and Aden - just because a trick permits it.] Note, however, that there IS a heavy coast defense gun unit that CAN move - once. This is a special Japanese unit with 12 inch guns for the battlecruisers that are not building - but one of the turrets was built. In this case the unit could theoretically move many times - but it is considered emplaced after the first move.

[el cid again]

We should add that civil airliners should not be used for airborne assaults and similar activities.
These include DNKKK and MNKKK units, and the Empire Flying Boats for the Allies.

[Mifune]

Alright with me, let us see what the Allied command has to say about civilian air units.

[el cid again]

They have little to say: they only have two tiny flights of Empire Flying boats - and one of those is armed!
We have most of the civil airliners - and in units up to 32 strong - enough to matter in an air assault. And by not misusing them - we insure this is done right.

[el cid again]

I think we need to decide about the operation vs Hawaii.

I cannot take Hawaii without about 3 divisions of IJA troops - and an air group.

That is about 2 divisions plus 3 brigades of line infantry, supported by
a tank regiment, a "heavy" artillery regiment (15 cm), and some light support units
(mortar, ATG, engineer). Also probably 2 regiments of Ki-21s, 2 regiments of Ki-30s
and 2 regiments of Ki-27 (or better Ki-43 I).

About half this force will remain in Hawaii as garrison (with naval units) - and presumably be
lost. The ENTIRE force could be lost if the ships on which it sails - either to or from Hawaii -
were sunk. Such are the risks of naval warfare.

Another problem is that the op draws a lot of naval power from other areas. I need to focus
many long range units and many naval land units - and the Kiddo Butai plus covering forces -
which is to say about half the long range naval air power - a significant part of the land units -
and the largest carrier force in the world - to have a reasonable expectation of success.
I don't need all those submarines - and can send many (half?) other places - and should IMHO.

We can expect to sink every ship at Hawaii which does not run before we arrive. We can expect
to wipe out 2 reinforced divisions, a dozen air units, signfiicant support units, and an artillery brigade.
- the largest artillery unit in the world, with 117 guns according to Gen Marshall.
We can expect to capture a significant amount of fuel and supply (Hawaii has half as much fuel as Japan's
total - so no matter how much is destroyed - we get what seems to us like a lot - I think).

We can expect to change the focus of the Pacific War to Hawaii itself. UNTIL and unless it is recaptured,
I don't expect a lot of offensives anywhere else. If that is not right, the offensives will be weak - for logistical
reasons. It creates the opportunity to hurt them when they retake the place. If they fail, we get another shot.
It is the sort of fight I like - fighting over something we don't need.

And Hawaii is a plausable way to end the war. Maybe not with players, but IRL. Japan planned to recognize the monarchy. A neutral Hawaii might be better than a Japanese one?