FlashFyre,
It certainly makes sense that the squad leader would be the squad's best soldier, but here is what the BattleWire website has to say:
Maschinegerwehr 42
Machine Gun
by Devin Cooley
Caliber 7.92mm
Cartridge: 7.92mm x 57mm Mauser
Length: 48 in (1219mm)
Weight : 25.25 lbs. (11.5 kg)
Muzzle Velocity: 2478 ft. (755m) per second
Effective Range: 1100 yds. (1000m)
Rate Of Fire: 1200 rounds/min. (cyclic)
Magazine: 50 round link belt
The MG-42 machine gun was designed to replace the German MG-34. The MG-42 was to be mass produced and to be more rugged in the field than the hand-crafted MG34 which demanded more maintenance and care. The result of these efforts created perhaps the world's best machine gun with a unique delayed blowback system of firing. Durable, dependable and possessing an incredible rate of fire made this weapon the pride of German infantry and the scourge of the Allies.
Its distinctive firing sound of ripping canvas punctuated the battlefield and was easily recognizable by Americans for the MG 42 fired three times as fast as any machine gun in the American arsenal.
By 1944 the German squad and its tactics revolved around the MG-42. The squad's main focus in a firefight was to get the MG42 up and firing on the enemy as quickly as possible, with the rest of the squad ready to bring more ammo to the gun if need be. In addition, the gunner of the squad's MG-42 was the unit's best and steadiest soldier. [emphasis by vahauser] The MG-42 may be fired from its bipod (Light MG), on a tripod (Medium) or from a tripod and with a heavy barrel (Heavy).
Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
RE: Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
Makes sense, since you don't want your MG running away first. Since the squad leader had other duties, they may mean of the other soldiers in the squad, excluding the squad leader. Otherwise in one squad you might have a soldier running the gun, and the next squad the squad leader running the gun, etc. Maybe the squad leader picked his best guy and gave him the job.
Goblin
Goblin
RE: Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP
ORIGINAL: vahauser
I think this was mentioned earlier, but it bears repeating. In the German Army, the squad machingunner was considered to be the squad's best soldier and, as such, the rest of the squad tended to be support.
Wouldn't "the best soldier in the squad" be the Squad Leader? [&:]
An interesting theory..ah, but if it were true....[:D]
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Orzel Bialy
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RE: Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
This refers to the squads most steadfast non-NCO soldier...which means its excluding the squad leader himself.
It did make very good business sense to have the most capable man handling one of the squads most effective means of firepower.
It did make very good business sense to have the most capable man handling one of the squads most effective means of firepower.
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FlashfyreSP
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RE: Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
Ok, I can agree with the assessment of non-NCO, or at least the best soldier other than the squad sergeant/leader.
But I believe this could also be said of just about any nation, if they included a LMG in the squad makeup. You can't very well give the "squad slacker" the MG and expect him to do a bang-up job, right?
But I believe this could also be said of just about any nation, if they included a LMG in the squad makeup. You can't very well give the "squad slacker" the MG and expect him to do a bang-up job, right?
RE: Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
Hello...
Some .50 calibre machine gun operators might disagree. Only one third rate of fire, but bigger, badder projectiles.
Bye...
Michael Wood
Some .50 calibre machine gun operators might disagree. Only one third rate of fire, but bigger, badder projectiles.
Bye...
Michael Wood
...The result of these efforts created perhaps the world's best machine gun...
RE: Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
Hello...
Game makes following assumptions.
Squad or section as called in Europe was 8 to 15 men and based around a light machine gun. Pretty much true for most armies of period. The machine gun provided most of the fire power and all others in squad supported that gun. Bren gun, DP LMG, MG-34 and MG-42 are all assumed to be light machine guns. Squad size was large, because it was believed that with only 4 or 5 men were in squad, one casualty could eliminate squad (the LMG) as fighting force. With 10 or 12 men they would not feel as threatened by the loss of a man or two.
U.S.A. never developed a real light machine gun, before the war and had different philosophy. It was planned that by arming all troops with semi-automatic gas operated weapons, a squad would be able to place as much fire as a platoon of regular troops. Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) was added for use against recalcitrant targets and given armor piercing ammunition. Later in war, most squads ended up with two or three BARs, as the need for a light machine gun became apparent, even with semi-automatic rifles. Later in war, some units were armed with .30 MMG and bipod in LMG role.
U.S.M.C. found that they could actually base fire around automatic weapon, with only four men. This was the beginning of the fire team and three were formed in each squad. They started around the BAR. When I served, the fire team was composed of the M-60 operator, the rifle man, the radio man and the fire team leader. The M-60 could be used as a light machine gun with bipod or medium machine gun, with tripod and a three man crew. It was based on the MG-42, which was also used as a light or medium machine gun.
Bye…
Michael Wood
Game makes following assumptions.
Squad or section as called in Europe was 8 to 15 men and based around a light machine gun. Pretty much true for most armies of period. The machine gun provided most of the fire power and all others in squad supported that gun. Bren gun, DP LMG, MG-34 and MG-42 are all assumed to be light machine guns. Squad size was large, because it was believed that with only 4 or 5 men were in squad, one casualty could eliminate squad (the LMG) as fighting force. With 10 or 12 men they would not feel as threatened by the loss of a man or two.
U.S.A. never developed a real light machine gun, before the war and had different philosophy. It was planned that by arming all troops with semi-automatic gas operated weapons, a squad would be able to place as much fire as a platoon of regular troops. Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) was added for use against recalcitrant targets and given armor piercing ammunition. Later in war, most squads ended up with two or three BARs, as the need for a light machine gun became apparent, even with semi-automatic rifles. Later in war, some units were armed with .30 MMG and bipod in LMG role.
U.S.M.C. found that they could actually base fire around automatic weapon, with only four men. This was the beginning of the fire team and three were formed in each squad. They started around the BAR. When I served, the fire team was composed of the M-60 operator, the rifle man, the radio man and the fire team leader. The M-60 could be used as a light machine gun with bipod or medium machine gun, with tripod and a three man crew. It was based on the MG-42, which was also used as a light or medium machine gun.
Bye…
Michael Wood
RE: Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
This is from "Ammunition" by Johnson and Haven. Extracted from the "The Infantry Mailing List" volume XXII, July,1941,pgs 203 et seq.
there are several tables dealing with the Ammunition with an infantry regiment.
For the BAR in a rifle company equipped with M1 rifles the loadout is 320 rounds," 80 by the the automatic rifleman, 120 by the assistant automatic rifleman and each ammunition carrier, all in 20- round magazines: 40 by each ammuniton carrier in 5- or 8-round clips (see ammunition for the rifle)."
another 820 rounds is carried on the unit ammunition train "468 to issued prior to combat-- 100 to each automatic rifleman and 80 to each assistant automatic rifleman in 20-round magazines; 96 to each assistant autimatic rifleman in 48-round bandoleers; 192 to each ammunition carrier in 48-round bandoleers (see ammunition for M! rifle); 384 retained in ammuniton train as reserve."
There are numbers that differ a little bit for companies equipped with M1903 or M1917 rifles because their bandoleers held 60 rounds.
A further 576 or 540 rounds (depending on rifle type in unit) were held on the train of higher unit. This gives totals of 1748 rounds and 1720 rounds for the automatic rifles in companies equiped with the M1 and the bolt guns.
Ammo mix is given as 5% AP; 10% tracer: 85% ball. The mix for the rifles is given as 10% AP; 20% tracer; 70% ball. The same mix is given for the belt fed guns.
The ammunition for the rifles is listed as 328 rounds total ( on individual, on unit Am Tn, on Train of higher unit) for the M1 and 220 rounds for the Bolt guns. The air cooled Browning is listed as having 3000 rounds on prime mover or truck, 2000 rounds on unit ammunition train and 1000 on train of higher unit for 6000 total. The water cooled Browning is listed as 6750 on prime mover or truck with 1500 on train of higher command for 8250 total.
Remember that these are pre-war ammunition allotments and could very well have changed by the time American troops saw action but they do point out the thinking of the time.
Two examples of that thinking are a 200 round allotment (all in magazines) per automatic rifle (BAR) "organically assigned to pedestal mount (AA on vehicle)...." and that the Browning Machine Gun, Caliber 50, HB, M2, Ground. is listed as an "Antitank Machine gun".
Also no listing for any sub-machine gun.
there are several tables dealing with the Ammunition with an infantry regiment.
For the BAR in a rifle company equipped with M1 rifles the loadout is 320 rounds," 80 by the the automatic rifleman, 120 by the assistant automatic rifleman and each ammunition carrier, all in 20- round magazines: 40 by each ammuniton carrier in 5- or 8-round clips (see ammunition for the rifle)."
another 820 rounds is carried on the unit ammunition train "468 to issued prior to combat-- 100 to each automatic rifleman and 80 to each assistant automatic rifleman in 20-round magazines; 96 to each assistant autimatic rifleman in 48-round bandoleers; 192 to each ammunition carrier in 48-round bandoleers (see ammunition for M! rifle); 384 retained in ammuniton train as reserve."
There are numbers that differ a little bit for companies equipped with M1903 or M1917 rifles because their bandoleers held 60 rounds.
A further 576 or 540 rounds (depending on rifle type in unit) were held on the train of higher unit. This gives totals of 1748 rounds and 1720 rounds for the automatic rifles in companies equiped with the M1 and the bolt guns.
Ammo mix is given as 5% AP; 10% tracer: 85% ball. The mix for the rifles is given as 10% AP; 20% tracer; 70% ball. The same mix is given for the belt fed guns.
The ammunition for the rifles is listed as 328 rounds total ( on individual, on unit Am Tn, on Train of higher unit) for the M1 and 220 rounds for the Bolt guns. The air cooled Browning is listed as having 3000 rounds on prime mover or truck, 2000 rounds on unit ammunition train and 1000 on train of higher unit for 6000 total. The water cooled Browning is listed as 6750 on prime mover or truck with 1500 on train of higher command for 8250 total.
Remember that these are pre-war ammunition allotments and could very well have changed by the time American troops saw action but they do point out the thinking of the time.
Two examples of that thinking are a 200 round allotment (all in magazines) per automatic rifle (BAR) "organically assigned to pedestal mount (AA on vehicle)...." and that the Browning Machine Gun, Caliber 50, HB, M2, Ground. is listed as an "Antitank Machine gun".
Also no listing for any sub-machine gun.
RE: Evaluating Squad Automatic Weapons
ORIGINAL: 264rifle
This is from "Ammunition" by Johnson and Haven. Extracted from the "The Infantry Mailing List" volume XXII, July,1941,pgs 203 et seq.
there are several tables dealing with the Ammunition with an infantry regiment.
For the BAR in a rifle company equipped with M1 rifles the loadout is 320 rounds," 80 by the the automatic rifleman, 120 by the assistant automatic rifleman and each ammunition carrier, all in 20- round magazines: 40 by each ammuniton carrier in 5- or 8-round clips (see ammunition for the rifle)."
another 820 rounds is carried on the unit ammunition train "468 to issued prior to combat-- 100 to each automatic rifleman and 80 to each assistant automatic rifleman in 20-round magazines; 96 to each assistant autimatic rifleman in 48-round bandoleers; 192 to each ammunition carrier in 48-round bandoleers (see ammunition for M! rifle); 384 retained in ammuniton train as reserve."
There are numbers that differ a little bit for companies equipped with M1903 or M1917 rifles because their bandoleers held 60 rounds.
A further 576 or 540 rounds (depending on rifle type in unit) were held on the train of higher unit. This gives totals of 1748 rounds and 1720 rounds for the automatic rifles in companies equiped with the M1 and the bolt guns.
Ammo mix is given as 5% AP; 10% tracer: 85% ball. The mix for the rifles is given as 10% AP; 20% tracer; 70% ball. The same mix is given for the belt fed guns.
The ammunition for the rifles is listed as 328 rounds total ( on individual, on unit Am Tn, on Train of higher unit) for the M1 and 220 rounds for the Bolt guns. The air cooled Browning is listed as having 3000 rounds on prime mover or truck, 2000 rounds on unit ammunition train and 1000 on train of higher unit for 6000 total. The water cooled Browning is listed as 6750 on prime mover or truck with 1500 on train of higher command for 8250 total.
Remember that these are pre-war ammunition allotments and could very well have changed by the time American troops saw action but they do point out the thinking of the time.
Two examples of that thinking are a 200 round allotment (all in magazines) per automatic rifle (BAR) "organically assigned to pedestal mount (AA on vehicle)...." and that the Browning Machine Gun, Caliber 50, HB, M2, Ground. is listed as an "Antitank Machine gun".
Also no listing for any sub-machine gun.
I love this post. BTW, your assumption the "round mix" changed during was is correct..The AP rounds for the M1 went up closer to 15-20%, and the BAR up to as much as 60%. (This was one of the reasons the designers of the Armelite AR 15 were so keen on showing what the .223 could do to a concrete block wall, the BAR was commonly used to eliminate enemy hiding places.)