Please simplify player positions!

[SmilinJack]

Ok,

I'm probably alone here...but I'd love to see simplier roster positions.

QBs, RBs, OLs, RECs, DLs, LBs, DBs and Kickers.

Players should fall into a general position and I should be allowed to, in the Team profile, identify what attributes make a REC a TE, an OL a Tackle, a RB a Fullback etc... If that is too complicated at least lose the SB, Centre (what is this), Blocker, Kick Returner, HOLDER? etc... These specific positions just over complicate what are very simple general rules.

These are depth slot/formation issues and should not be roster positions.

I like QB, RB, OL, DL, LB and DB, these work, but SB, TE, Blockers, Centre, Holders etc...not necessary.

This simplifies and makes rosters more universal from league to league and rule set to rule set.

Too late to change this I'm sure as too much code would probably have to be changed.

In American Football we too have Wingbacks, Slotbacks, H-Backs, Halfbacks, Monster backs, Elephants etc, etc. Much of this is just terminology and specific to plays and formations based on where one lines-up. This would make thePDS easier to use too.

SmilinJack

[garysorrell]

Actually, this is on Davids to-do list. He has said he is doing it, just not sure how soon. I dont think it's set for the very next update, but maybe the following.

[Brockleigh]

Actually, I could not disagree more with the simplification of some of the positions, especially when it comes to the TE/SB positions. The types of players needed to perform these tasks is largely unique, and not easily substituted by another field player. The type of player you're looking for in a Tight End is simliar in some respects to a Fullback, but he needs to be larger and has to have better hands than what you'd find in most Fullbacks.

With a Slotback (for Canadian Football), you're looking for a similar position, but then having to add agility. As these players are in forward motion at the time of the snap, they need a higher agility rating to make cuts at or near top speed, while still retaining a solid blocking rating to provide outside blocking for the running game.

I'm sorry, but these two positions are specialized, and need to be kept.

[SmilinJack]

Brockleigh,

Don't misunderstand me. I agree every position requires specific attributes; however, I'm not suggesting David removes them from the game; however, they don't need to be roster slots. But should be defined by formations and depth charts.

My TE might be tall and fast seam busters, not pumped up fullbacks.

I ask he classify players in general roster slots. Leave me to define which player better fits as my TE, SB, FB etc, etc...

SmilinJack

[David Winter]

Actually, the player positions are being broken down further into even more granular positions, not simplified.
 

I like QB, RB, OL, DL, LB and DB, these work, but SB, TE, Blockers, Centre, Holders etc...not necessary.

 
Blockers (and cover men on the other side of the ball) are used for special teams. A slot back (in the Maximum-Football sense) is specific to Canadian Football.. it's a unique position just like running back or offensive linemen. Other positions, like holders, and centres are specific because some teams go out of their way to find players for those positions.

[SmilinJack]

Hi David,

So, I can expect rosters to eventually be broken into, tackles, guards, centers, wingbacks, fullbacks, halfbacks, tailbacks, split ends, flankers, weakside linebackers, strongside linebackers, monsters backs, h-backs, long snappers (centre), elephant tackles (43 cover two), nose tackles (34), special teams gunners etc.

Where does it end? I think the positions can be specific to the play design or formation design, why roster slots or player position designations.

I beef for two reasons:
1) Every past football game has neglected the fact that the more specialized a roster becomes the less likely proper subs can and will be made when injuries, fatigue, etc reduces AI options, and;
2) I drafted a Holder in MAXFB for the very reason that you state, because I wanted a reliable Holder, he superceded my QB and was starting at QB in every formation. This is exactly the thing one would like to avoid.

Let us agree that most of us understand football, both North and South of the border and of course Indoor football. A tailback has very distinct attributes versus a I back, or Ace back, but it is negible except to someone like myself building a Run and Shoot formation so I draft or select a RB that fits my needs, I don't need a roster slot just a depth chart. The question is not of football but it is of an unencumbered gaming experience that works. I don't want Madden rosters and sub problems. I want to build my own plays and formations where I'll place these players...You game does this beautifully but for one thing...How do I put a TE on the field when I build a formation...I haven't been able to get that to work yet. It's R1, R2, R3 etc... This makes my point. Maybe, I'm misunderstanding the difference between roster slots, depth charts and play design.

SmilinJack

[David Winter]

It won't be broken down to that extreme, but yes, some positions will be more granular. The depth charts more so, with RightGuard, RightTackle, etc, instead of the current 'Offensive Linemen' (as one example). 
 
My point is, you draft/aquire an offensive linemen and place him in the RightTackle position. But you would draft/aquire a slotback and place him in the slotback position.
 
How do I put a TE on the field when I build a formation?.
 
When you build a formation, you specify the number of TE's in the formation on the Create Formation dialog box. Right now it needs to be at least one, but future versions will have the ability for 0 to 2.

[SmilinJack]

Okay, I'm beginning to see where you are going with the rosters.

So, players will be generic positions, ie RBs, OL, DL, QB, DB etc... But I can drop them into specific roster slots, ie, free safety, fullback, right guard, DT DE?? That sounds much better. My concern is with players actually being a LT, TE, RG, SB etc... Trying to wrangle LT into guard positions or DT into DE slots in games like Madden drive me crazy. I actually have to change a players designated position in Madden, I hate that! A DL is a DL...I should be able to determine whether he is an End, Tackle, Nose, etc by where I slate him to start on the depth chart, or it sounds like in your future update, a roster slot.

I think I see how you'll handle this in the future.

Now you know why artisits paint alone and finish their work before exposing it to the public...what would their paintings look like if every guy like me told them what colors and where the next stroke should be? It is MUCH appreciated that you are listening and balancing your game development with client input.

Thanks David for listening to guys like me.

Jay

[StLee]

I would much prefer that the positions are broken down even more, including breaking down specific roles for players (as primary position-like a FB who could play TE or vice versa), but there should be tweeners too.

Actually, I would love that even in an American-style offense, there are players generated at each position, including SB. As a GM, I get to decide if I want to pick up the player. Also, when there is a team profile, it can decide if I want athletic DEs and DTs or bulky players. Also, I can decide if I want to move a TE to FB (or QB to WR or RB to WR or WR to CB, etc.). Also, I can decide if I want a guy listed as a FB or LB to be a ST specialist. And I can decide if I want a holder or a return specialist on my team.

The more options, the more we as players can cutomize our leagues and teams. So SmilinJack, I disagree with simplifying positions. In fact, I would love for them to become even more specific.

[SmilinJack]

Hi STLee,

I give. If David can pull it off, bug free, and provide an AI that can handle its rosters as effectively as I handle mine...or provide me with a global tool editor so I can make sure every team is smart about its roster of players, then trust me I'd be fine with that kind of specificy.
Especially for my defensve schemes and talent. 46 anyone, or even the old Monster back/safety. I'm cool with that level of definition if it works.

SmilinJack

[SmilinJack]

Actually after spending a full week making teams, a league and playing the game...David's TeamProfiles work very well for the AI(cpu) teams. I'm beginning to see this is not Ma, nor is it the slightly GM stupid Front Page Sports Football, That I remember.

I found most of the earlier problems with rosters (via the draft) stemmed from my failure to equip my teams with Teamprofiles. It took me a couple of failed drafts, leagues etc...to figure out some things. Manual? Who needs a stickin' manual.

So, I trust David's granular player positions, roster etc...could be an outstanding feature.

SmilinJack