Brewster Bufflo performance

[Sardaukar]

From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Buffalo#Specifications_.28F2A-1.29

"Specifications (F2A-1)
General characteristics

* Crew: One, pilot
* Length: 26 ft (7.9 m)
* Wingspan: 35 ft (10.7 m)
* Height: 11 ft 11 in (3.6 m)
* Empty weight: 3,785 lb (1,717 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 5,040 lb (2,286 kg)
* Powerplant: 1× Wright R-1820-34 Cyclone 9 , 950 hp (708 kW)

Performance

* Maximum speed: 311 mph at 18,000 ft (500 km/h at 5,500 m)
* Range: 1,000 miles (1,600 km)
* Service ceiling: 33,000 ft (10,100 m)

Armament

* 1 x 0.30 cal (7.62 mm) machine gun and 1 x 0.50 cal (12.7 mm) machine gun in the fuselage
* 2 x 0.50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns in the wings (optional)
* In Finnish service: 4 x 0.50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns"

Later Brewsters were lot worse than the Model 239 (or F2A-1), speed of 311 (or 304 at 16 000ft from other sources) is not bad at all in 1940-41.

[Sardaukar]

Some tactical stuff, Brewster against different Soviet planes:

http://www.warbirdforum.com/faf2con.htm

"I-16, I-153: Especially suited for Pendulum tactic, use your speed advantagee, try to make the fight quite long, since both of them had very low endurance compared to a Brewster.

Hurricane Mk II: Straight from the Hans Wind, the top-scoring Brewster ace, while keeping a lecture to new fighter pilots: "Hurricane is the easiest enemy plane to shoot down. Under 3000 metres (9000ft) it's no match for us. It's slow and very clumsy and stiff. When you meet a Hurricane, immediately start a dogfight, then it can only depend on our good will. Aim to the front part of it, then it usually flares up" (This was taken from the "Lentäjän näkökulma II")

SB-2, DB-3: Easy...You have both the speed and agility + a powerful armament. Usual tactic was to attack from the rear, kill or injure the rear gunner and then lit up the engines.

LaGG-3, MiG-1, MiG-3 and other fast Soviet fighters: Dogfight them in low altitude.

Pe-2, Douglas A-20 Boston: Dive in from high. They're faster than you, you can't catch them in a level flight.

Il-2: ("The Agricultural Aeroplane") There's a weak spot in the upper side of the wing's root. It usually ignites if you hit it. Another was to shoot at the cocpit from above.

Normally it was a policy to use only four planes on a patrol flight, but by the end of the 1943 larger formations of 8 to 16 planes, normally schwarms in multiple altitudes, had to be used. "

[Fokkov2]

Found this on dutch wikipedia

8 brewster against 20 zero's and 35 bombers, 4 lost against 11 jap ones [&:]
if true is not bad at all
any details on this by anyone ,or some pilot counted wrong in the heat of battle.

Op 19 februari 1942 kwamen 8 Brewsters een formatie van 35 Japanse bommenwerpers, geëscorteerd door 20 Mitsubishi Zero's tegen. Tijdens het gevecht dat volgde gingen er 4 Brewsters verloren, maar werden er 11 Japanse vliegtuigen neergeschoten.

[Big B]

Sardauker and Fokkov2, thanks for the info. [;)]

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Big B


Well, it seems that the Brewster Buffalo's speed was actually in the 320+ range for all but the early Finnish Model 239.

It also seems the Dutch 339's were no worse off than the British 339's. In fact, 2/3's of the Dutch Buffalo 339's seemed to have been equipped with the 1200HP engine instead of the standard export model 1100HP engine.

(see below)
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f2a.html

As for the F2A vs the F4F, I can see how some pilots would have preferred Buffalo's to Wildcats, if they had flown the pre-war F2A-2 model. It seems that - that aircraft had a top speed of 340MPH, better range, and climb than the F4F-3, and was considered nimble. However, the F2A-2 had no armor, and the follow on F2A-3 which was equipped as a combat aircraft (like the Wildcat) did not perform as well as the F4F-3.

All in all, it seems that a reappraisal of the Buffalo is in order.

Interesting, I could have sworn that the 339D had a 950 hp engine. If I get a chance I will try to look that up.

[niceguy2005]

Ok, it appears that starting with the F2A-2 the Buff's engine was upgraded to the 1200hp.

That means the plane delivered to the Finns, the F2A-1 had the 950 hp engine...interesting.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/w ... ewf2a.html

[Dutch_slith]

Details for the B-339D

Wright Cyclone GR-1820-G205A
1.000hp at 2.100m

max Speed: 523km/h at 5.000m

economic cruise: 350km/h

reaches 5.000m in 7min 20sec

max Altitude: 7.625m

Range 1.700km

armament: 2 x 7.7mm MG
2 x 12.7mm MG

bomb load: 100kg

Source: 'De Luchtstrijd rond Borneo' by P.C. Boer

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Harald Velemans

Details for the B-339D

Wright Cyclone GR-1820-G205A
1.000hp at 2.100m

max Speed: 523km/h at 5.000m

economic cruise: 350km/h

reaches 5.000m in 7min 20sec

max Altitude: 7.625m

Range 1.700km

armament: 2 x 7.7mm MG
2 x 12.7mm MG

bomb load: 100kg

Source: 'De Luchtstrijd rond Borneo' by P.C. Boer

Thank you very much for the info - it matches pretty well with most of the other info I have read about them - seems to verify those figures. [;)]

Brian

[Nikademus]

F2A-1

Max speed 301mph
cruise speed 160mph
Rate o Climb 2100 fpm
Powerplant - Wright R-1820-34 960hp

F2A-2

Max speed 324mph
cruise speed 165mph
Rate of Climb 2000 fpm
Powerplant - Wright R1820-40 1200hp

F2A-3

Max speed 321mph
cruise speed 160mph
Rate of Climb 2000 fpm
Powerplant - Wright R1820-? 1200hp

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

F2A-1

Max speed 301mph
cruise speed 160mph
Rate o Climb 2100 fpm
Powerplant - Wright R-1820-34 960hp

F2A-2

Max speed 324mph
cruise speed 165mph
Rate of Climb 2000 fpm
Powerplant - Wright R1820-40 1200hp

F2A-3

Max speed 321mph
cruise speed 160mph
Rate of Climb 2000 fpm
Powerplant - Wright R1820-? 1200hp

Well again - that matches most of the sources I have seen. Nik, why do you suppose stock WitP has them rated so much lower?

[Nikademus]

might have something to do with the downgrading of the engine for the export versions. It also might be due to the fact that the plane was unstable in flight and had drag issues along with the usual issue of getting up to the higher speed envelope. Even the prototype, during it's test flight struggled to break 300mph @ 17,000 feet (this before the multitude of upgrades that kept adding weight to the plane) I believe the British might have had the plane's upgraded with armor and self sealers which would have compounded the problems with the Brewster airframe. The reason they'd been sent to Singapore in the first place was because the plane's abysmal med-high alt preformance was deemed unsatisfactory for European combat but they felt it would be fine against anything the Japanese had. The Brewster always rivaled the F4F in terms of paper stats, but it's real world performance would reveal another story.

[showboat1]

Are there any surviving Buffaloes in a museum somewhere? I remember reading about an attempt to pull one out of a lake for the Natl museum of naval Aviation in Pensacola, but I never heard anything about its success or failure.

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: Big B

Well again - that matches most of the sources I have seen. Nik, why do you suppose stock WitP has them rated so much lower?

Performance of the RAF Buffaloes was highly variable, because of of manufacturing issues. Many of them were supplied with refurbished commercial transport engines that could not reach rated power, or had fuel and oil pumps intended for smaller engines, which couldn't handle the load.

Apparently some of the RAF Buffaloes could reach their rated performance, but others couldn't. I suppose the stock ratings take that into account, but whether they are intended to reflect the minimum performance or some sort of average performance, I don't know.

[Nikademus]

none.

but a wrecked 339 was discovered in Finland and is i believe being restored

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

none.

but a wrecked 339 was discovered in Finland and is i believe being restored

Google search for images and you will find a site where you can download film clips of the Buffalo being salvaged.

[Sardaukar]

Here is the link:

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/art ... 72lecture/

"In summer 1998 a WW2 era Finnish Brewster B-239 fighter was found in a lake in Russian Karelia. The B-239 fighter flown by Lauri Pekuri was shot down in a aerial combat 25.6.1942. The aircraft that was found is the only one existing in the world. The results of work by a Finnish-Russian-American expedition group seemed very promising in the beginning. The group had all the necessary permits for the operation, granted to Prytkov's Petro-Avia company by local government of Karelia Republic.

The restoration project got into problems as the potential value of the plane was understood by other parties. Even Russian OMON special forces were sent after the search party. The ownership relations of the aircraft were mixed and in the end the aircraft ended up in an Irish warehouse as merchandise for several years. From Ireland the aircraft's journey continued to a warehouse in Mobile, Alabama. After two years the aircraft was transferred to the United States Naval Museum at Pensacola, Florida."

[m10bob]

Here is the Buffalo, finally in Pensacola..(Thank you Sardauker!)


http://www.warbirdforum.com/372.htm

[msaario]

Now you know why you should have a NOKIA cell phone - it looks like new after 6 decades in a lake...

"Port view of BW-372. Note the plump tire, manufactured by Nokia"

And yes, its the same company.

--Mikko

[Big B]

So it seems the information is in,

The Buffalo Mk I and 339D, had a top speeds of about 325 to 330 by the authoritative sources.

What are the opinions of the forum as to what would be the most appropriate speed in the game?

A) 330 (by one source)
B) 325 (by several sources)
C) 315 (to account for poor performance in SE Asian warm air)
D) 295 (WitP stock - apparently to make the aircraft modeled after the worse case scenario)
E) Other?

Would appreciate any feedback.

Brian

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Big B

So it seems the information is in,

The Buffalo Mk I and 339D, had a top speeds of about 325 to 330 by the authoritative sources.

What are the opinions of the forum as to what would be the most appropriate speed in the game?

A) 330 (by one source)
B) 325 (by several sources)
C) 315 (to account for poor performance in SE Asian warm air)
D) 295 (WitP stock - apparently to make the aircraft modeled after the worse case scenario)
E) Other?

Would appreciate any feedback.

Brian

"Eight RAAF Brewster Buffalo fighters intercept 27 Japanese bombers after they had bombed Singapore. Seeing the fighters, the bombers went into a shallow dive and outran the fighters. One RAAF pilot put it, “Bombers outpacing fighters. You’ve got to bloody-well laugh.” (Jack McKillop)"

I would say C or D...