CHS version 3.0

[wdolson]

I've been out of town for most of the last week. I'm catching up.

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
I'm willing to help with a CHS 3.0 project. I have no software skills. I can help with OOB and especially leader research -- I still think it is outrageous that the vast majority of general-grade "leaders" in stock are fictional.

I think that is a very good thing to put some work into. I've noticed that too and it's irritating.

Changes I favor:

1. BigB's A2A variant. (The effect, in practice, seems to be about the same as Nik's, and the data changes are "cleaner" -- don't have to mess with durability and flak).

In the past, CHS came in different "flavors" with different models. I personally disagree that the A2A model is horribly off in the stock game. If you have combat on the scale it was actually seen in the real war, you get something close to historical results. IMO, the extreme results you get in the game are more a function of the huge numbers you're able to focus on one spot, which is ahistorical.

However, since opinions differ and CHS has had different air models in the past, that can be continued.

2. Treespider's effort to (appropriately) reduce base sizes.

This should be relatively easy to incorporate.

3. Adjusting aircraft ranges and incorporating ElCid's work on fuel tanks.

I've done a fair bit of this, as well as done some work on the Allied air OOB. From playing against the AI, I have found several aircraft that need range tweaks.

I didn't change the durability or maneuverability numbers and the new aircraft I added were modeled in line with the stock maneuver and durability numbers. The "experimental" version can change these to reflect whatever A2A and flak mod people want.

4. Persistently lobbying Matrix to disconnect supply/resource production (just call it a "bug"). Until this occurs, no one will be able to create a moderately accurate economic-logistics-shipping model for WitP. ElCid's "supply sinks" are a clever concept, but create much-discussed issues of their own, and the entire approach breaks down once a base is captured and the supply sink is eliminated.

I'm not completely sure what you mean here by disconnecting the supply/resource production. Personally, I am not a fan of the supply sinks in RHS. I agree with you that it introduces more problems trying to solve another.

Anyway, good thoughts here.

Bill

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
Thanks. The database for USA division commanders (and above) was scrubbed by yours truly and should be mostly accurate in CHS. There are still some anomalies I would like to correct -- for example, "General" Van Fleet is available at start. IRL, he was a Colonel in 1941, did all his fighting in Europe, and was eventually promoted to Major General and commanded the III Corps in 1945. He would have been available in late 1945 commanding ETO troops earmarked to participate in the invasion of Japan.

LCU leaders and HQ leaders are mutually exclusive in WitP. A workaround I used for division commanders who eventually commanded corps HQs was to designate them as HQ commanders, but start them in command of a division. Two drawbacks: 1. Once the general is removed from the LCU he can only ever command HQs. 2. Unless the player searches the database he has no easy way of telling which potenial corps commanders are currently commanding divisions.

Ideally, CHS would have an on-line manual tipping would-be players off to the effects of mods such as this -- or Andrew's rework of industry so India needs to import oil and supply at start.

Just FYI, there were two Van Fleets. The more famous Van Fleet was a member of the famous West Point class of 1915 (I think it was that year) that produced many of the notable generals from World War II.

When General Marshall became chief of the Army, he started carrying around a notebook with him and made notes on the officers he met. When the war started, he fast tracked all the promising officers in his book and ensured those who did not impress him were blocked from promotion. It is how Eisenhower went from a colonel to chief of Allied ground forces in Europe in such a short time and Hub Zempke went from a 1st lieutenant pilot to commanding a bird colonel commanding a fighter group in a little over a year.

Marshall had encountered a Van Fleet before the war who was a drunk and a bad officer. Whenever he saw promotion recommendations for a Colonel Van Fleet, he made sure they died. Finally one of the competent Van Fleet's class mates (migh thave been Eisenhower) asked Marshall why such a top notch officer was not getting promoted. When Marshall was enlightened that there were two Van Fleets, he fast tracked the competent one.

Bill

[Don Bowen]

Damn you do good work!

Ask any questions - ready and available with answers, excuses, and blame deflection.

Don

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I'm not completely sure what you mean here by disconnecting the supply/resource production. Personally, I am not a fan of the supply sinks in RHS. I agree with you that it introduces more problems trying to solve another.

Anyway, good thoughts here.

Bill

Bill,

WitP has a good, simple concept for an economic model. Japan needs to capture Resources and Oil, ship it back to the Home Islands, where factories will produce new units and supplies. More shipping is needed to move the units/supplies forward.

But the model is subverted by hard-coding every base that produces resources to also produce supplies. IIRC, the ratio is 1:1.25.

The problem with the code is especially apparent in the SRA. In WitP armies can support themselves from locally generated supplies in Malaysia and the DEI. But IRL, most all military supplies had to be imported. The Japanese army was nearly out of supply at the end of the Malaysian/Singapore campaign.

Until supply production is separated from resource production, the Japanese and the Allies will never need to use as many merchant ships as they did historically, or face the logistical challenges of shipping most of their supplies from the home country.

[Captain Cruft]

I agree, Resources generating Supply is IMHO the single biggest problem with this game.

Take that as a "lobby" [:)]

[Halsey]

OK, so you've added 20000+ AV points to the Chinese.
Probably a lot more since you've boosted the corps TO&E's.
With about 200+ more to the Japanese.

What's wrong with this picture?
Historical basis, or pure assumption?

PS:
I don't mind you having your own scenario, but putting it under the CHS title might be a little presumptuous.
Maybe if you remove the H from CHS.[;)][:D]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

OK, so you've added 20000+ AV points to the Chinese.
Probably a lot more since you've boosted the corps TO&E's.
With about 200+ more to the Japanese.

What's wrong with this picture?
Historical basis, or pure assumption?

PS:
I don't mind you having your own scenario, but putting it under the CHS title might be a little presumptuous.
Maybe if you remove the H from CHS.[;)][:D]

If you would check a little closer you will also realize some other subtle differences between the Chinese in this version and the Chinese in 2.08...

- In 2.08 Chinese Inf corps had 24 Engineers...in my version 3-Div Corps have 8 and 2-Div Corps have 5

- In 2.08 Chinese Inf Corps had 382 Rifle Squads and 341 support...in my version 3 Div Corps have 535 Rifle squads and 273 support, 2-Div Corps have 356 Rifle Squads and 182 support

- In addition to lacking support those corps start significantly understrength...

-In 2.08 17 of the 82 corps are static....in my version 12 of the 30 3-Div corps are static and 18 of 29 2-Div corps are static... or 30 of the 59 corps are static...

-In 2.08 once the Chinese Guerilla Corps are eliminated they return to Chungking and the line is no long fluid...In my version 15,000AV of the 20,000 you complain about are locked into three static base forces that are not located on any transportation network but are behind the lines. For them to become mobile the Japanese player will have to eliminate 20 devices that cause the unit to be static. Otherwise the Japanese player can ignore them because they cannot move...

-In 2.08 in repsonse to complaints that players could bomb Chinese supply away most of the Chinese supply was provided by direct daily supply allocations which could not be bombed or stopped...in my version i have shifted the supply back towards resource generated supply which can be bombed by the japanese player...

Before complaining I would suggest you do some historical research about China...[;)] On the otherhand I was also the author of the Chinese OoB in CHS...

[RevRick]

Okay, maybe I'm dense (don't ask my wife!) but is there a beta or a preliminary download for this? Or is it still in the factory?

[DD696]

Treespider's version is hosted on Andrew Brown's site as scenario 171, altho I believe he is in the process of doing another update to be released shortly.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: DD696

Treespider's version is hosted on Andrew Brown's site as scenario 171, altho I believe he is in the process of doing another update to be released shortly.

Correct. Andrew's CHS is the "Official" version...

...my version is based entirely on CHS 2.08 with the changes I've noted...reduction in airbases etc...

...and yes I am in the process of implementing some corrections...but between family, work and another project I'm working on time has been limited...

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

While I have made little progress with the next CHS update, I still work on it when I can, and it is not completely dead. I am happy to continue to coordinate the rest of the current update, but any assistance with the rest of the update, including with the actual coordination work, would be a huge help.

As soon as the current update is wrapped up I will have to drop out entirely, however.

The current update started as just a lot of scenario bug fixes, but as usual with these things, other "fixes" and "enhancements" invariably creep in. On top of that there are major contributions by JWE and Treespider that should be incorporated, at least in part, as well.

One major update I started, but which has taken a LOT of time to work on, is a major update to ship radars, including some new radar device types. If anyone is interested in helping with the research for that, then I would be particularly grateful. This particular project ended up taking a lot longer than I originally thought, which is why it remains uncompleted, given that the amount of spare time I have to devote to it is so small.

I will post some details of the changes made so far, plus a list of what I think remains to be done, in the next day or two.

Hi Andrew,

Just wondering if you could still post some of your upcoming changes and plans? Thanks! Looking forward to it! [:)]

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Just wondering if you could still post some of your upcoming changes and plans? Thanks! Looking forward to it! [:)]

Sorry for the long delay in providing more information. I have been held up trying to complete the map update I started a while ago. I have to make a few modifications to the railway lines to ensure I don't affect the movement of oil too much.

When I get the map update completed, I will return to finishing off the CHS update. That will be the best time to start listing the planned changes.

Andrew

[ny59giants]

How compatible will CHS games be with the map used for RHS level 7 (This is the one with shipping channels enabling around the world navigation)??
I just like the idea of the Allies being able to have more than one route to Australia. Especially, if NZ is captured by the Japanese.

[aztez]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

How compatible will CHS games be with the map used for RHS level 7 (This is the one with shipping channels enabling around the world navigation)??
I just like the idea of the Allies being able to have more than one route to Australia. Especially, if NZ is captured by the Japanese.

100% agreed. Hopefully the CHS will implement this in next version.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
How compatible will CHS games be with the map used for RHS level 7 (This is the one with shipping channels enabling around the world navigation)??

My understanding is that the RHS map is now significantly different from my map. You will have to ask Sid or Cobra though, as I don't have a copy of the RHS map myself. This means that CHS is not playable on the RHS map.

I just like the idea of the Allies being able to have more than one route to Australia. Especially, if NZ is captured by the Japanese.

There was a proposal to make a version of my map with "world encompassing" map edge channels a long time ago. But it never happened then, and there are no plans to add such a thing to my map now.

Andrew

[ny59giants]

There was a proposal to make a version of my map with "world encompassing" map edge channels a long time ago. But it never happened then, and there are no plans to add such a thing to my map now.

Bummer.....[:(][:(]

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Just wondering if you could still post some of your upcoming changes and plans? Thanks! Looking forward to it! [:)]

Sorry for the long delay in providing more information. I have been held up trying to complete the map update I started a while ago. I have to make a few modifications to the railway lines to ensure I don't affect the movement of oil too much.

When I get the map update completed, I will return to finishing off the CHS update. That will be the best time to start listing the planned changes.

Andrew

Great! So has anyone stepped up to help keep CHS going?

[Tanaka]

bump...

CHS Updates??? [&:]

[Badnews]

I will join your team if you needs me, maybe I can offer some help.
Waiting orders, sir.[:D]

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

How compatible will CHS games be with the map used for RHS level 7 (This is the one with shipping channels enabling around the world navigation)??
I just like the idea of the Allies being able to have more than one route to Australia. Especially, if NZ is captured by the Japanese.

I am interested in answer to these questions as well...

It would be great to have a playable CHS scenario on the map similar to AE or RHS version 7.
Is it possible?

I see none have any clue whether any updates for CHS 2.08 or AB map are to be seen in a foreseeable future... [:(]
Before AE is released and become fully playable -- it's still a long way to go.
With that many changes to AE I can only imagine how many bugs there'll be even if Matrix would really be ready in summer to sell it.