Jap + UK vs US

[Matto]

Love WPO, playing long time ... now looking if exists scenario, where UK is allied with Japs. I think, that creating this scenario is possible, only problem should be with UK bases, which must be Japs ... My question is exists home made scenario like this or start anybody some work on it ?

[Helpless]

Flanker Leader was doing IJN vs RN. Check out this thread tm.asp?m=1369534

[Matto]

No UK vs Jap, but UK+Jap ... vs US. UK and Jap were allied before Washington conference ...[/align]But thx for answer, Flanker Leaders work looks interesting too [8D] [/align]

[Helpless]

oops.. stupid me [:)]

Well, it is easier for uk to "join" japan, but they need to share the same attributes. Another option to have "Allies" as Japan and UK and "Japan" as US. [:D]

[JagdFlanker]

work stalled on it when i found out i had to start from scratch again after messing up a few things, but hopefully i'l be back on the horse by summer. the main problem is that WPO doesn't give the brits any troops to work with so i have to build up a british army in the game database - i don't mind working with the ships but recreating the british army from scratch was a lot more than i bargained for and to be honest i'm not really looking forward to it, and hence the delay until i feel 'up to it'!

adding the brits to japan is somewhat more involved - what would have to be done is the japs and usa would "swap places/nationalities' in the database since the japs can't have any seperate allies on their side in the database while the other side has many allied 'slots'. since it would be the usa vs japan and uk, the usa would have to be by themselves in the japanese side in the database, and japan would take the place of the usa on the other side of the database. not quite as hard as i described it above if you use the excel database editor and use the find/replace command, but not easy either...

[engineer]

Hmm, interesting notion, but does the Pacific become a sideshow?  UK vs. USA makes the North Atlantic the new principal theater of war.  Canada throws in the mother country and gets largely overrun by the USA for it's trouble so the British Army ends up off-map with a counter-offensive from the Maritimes into Quebec and Ontario.  Pacific Fleet has to send ships to reinforce Scouting Fleet in the Atlantic.  The Home Fleet has to keep its ships home to protect Britain and convoy the Royal Army to Canada.  Australia and NZ throw in with the mother country.  Japan gets a repeat of the Great War where they throw in with Britain and snap up the possessions of Britain's enemy in the Pacific.  The end game here is most likely a Japanese invasion of North America (and a vastly reduced string of US ground reinforcements since the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts need garrisons). 
 
The advantage of that scenario is that it gives a plausible out to building the British Army since they're busy fighting in Cleveland instead of Maui.  It also means that the naval OOB changes would involve subtracting US and UK ships so the Japanese end up being relatively stronger. 
 
I know there is a "designer choice" option of decoupling the macro-politics from the war game to focus on operational issues.  It's just that I tend to build "top down" from some macro-political assumptions and use those to inform the successive layers of strategic and operational detail in the scenarios.  Just comments and observations, more power to you for investing the effort here.
  

[mlees]

Not just Canada, but also Britains Carribean possessions are going to be fought over/around. The UK would use it's bases in Bermuda, the Bahama's and Jamaica to harass/attack the SE coast of the USA. War Plan: Red.

[hueglin]

The mod I am doing will be kind of like War Plan Red, but set in 1914. I am planning the following major/medium powers to be on opposite sides.
Side A : UK and Commonwealth, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Portugal, Netherlands, Sweden, Bulgaria, Turkey, Brazil, Chile, Mexico

Side B : US, France, Russia, Italy, Spain, Serbia, Greece, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Argentina, Peru.

The beta version of the map and wpohex.dat file is finished (no transportation network yet).

I`ve begun work on the device list and bases in Europe.

There`s a long, long, long way to go, but its certtainly a labour of love!

[Helpless]

Who will be Japan? [:D]

[Arkady]

ORIGINAL: engineer

Hmm, interesting notion, but does the Pacific become a sideshow? UK vs. USA makes the North Atlantic the new principal theater of war. Canada throws in the mother country and gets largely overrun by the USA for it's trouble so the British Army ends up off-map with a counter-offensive from the Maritimes into Quebec and Ontario. Pacific Fleet has to send ships to reinforce Scouting Fleet in the Atlantic. The Home Fleet has to keep its ships home to protect Britain and convoy the Royal Army to Canada. Australia and NZ throw in with the mother country. Japan gets a repeat of the Great War where they throw in with Britain and snap up the possessions of Britain's enemy in the Pacific. The end game here is most likely a Japanese invasion of North America (and a vastly reduced string of US ground reinforcements since the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts need garrisons).

The advantage of that scenario is that it gives a plausible out to building the British Army since they're busy fighting in Cleveland instead of Maui. It also means that the naval OOB changes would involve subtracting US and UK ships so the Japanese end up being relatively stronger.

I know there is a "designer choice" option of decoupling the macro-politics from the war game to focus on operational issues. It's just that I tend to build "top down" from some macro-political assumptions and use those to inform the successive layers of strategic and operational detail in the scenarios. Just comments and observations, more power to you for investing the effort here.

Well, I believe that conflicts in WPO timeframe do not evolve into total war.

All conflicts should be tied with diplomatic talks
War's goals are not total dominance but ports/islands or merchant routes control, something like colonial wars from previous centuries. Struggle in Southeast Asia and China between US and UK + Jap do not necessary mean land war in North America

[engineer]

I believe this is a legitimate designer choice.  Looking back at Great Power conflict in the 50 years prior to WPO we see WW1 that did escalate. The Russo-Japanese War did not escalate since Russia lost the ability threaten Japan when her navy was destroyed and Japan could not hope to conquer Russia.  The Spanish-American War was colonial since neither side could realistically threaten the metropolitan homeland, but the USA suffered scares that the Spanish fleet was on its way to bombard the US coast.  Japan conquered Korea and Formosa in its regional wars in the late 19th century.  They also acquired positions in China at the expense of Russia and Germany.  So they advanced onto the continent as far as their bayonets would carry them.   
 
Canadian involvement automatically triggers land war in North America.  It's unclear to me that this would be automatic, but if Canada sits out the war, why should New Zealand or Australia put themselves at risk?  The strategic center of gravity for both the UK and USA are the opposite shores of the North Atlantic.  On a larger scale this is the same formula that made the North Sea the focus of fleet attention between Wilhelmine Germany and the British Empire.     
 
MLees has a good point that the Caribbean would be a major theater since it would qualify as a ports/bases colonial dependencies with targets for both sides (Guantanamo, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Jamaica, Caymans, Bahamas, Bermuda, etc.).     
 
I think the analysis that the USA would be much weaker in the Pacific theater holds.  So rather than the historical Anglo-Japanese forces facing the USA, we're more likely to see token UK forces reinforcing the standard Japanese forces against a much reduced US OOB. 

[hueglin]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Who will be Japan? [:D]

Shockingly, I hadn't really thought of including Japan. I am not sure I would have enough slots (given the combined sizes of the other navies in 1914). If they did enter the war in the form of an expeditionary force (Japan and the Pacific Ocean are not on the map), I think it would be most logical to put them with the UK, Germany, Austria-Hungary side against US, Russia, France.

[JagdFlanker]

japan did nothing militarily in WW I - they produced supplies and munitions for the allies, then collected most of the german land possessions at the end of the war w/o having spilled much/any of their own blood.

[Helpless]

ORIGINAL: hueglin

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Who will be Japan? [:D]

Shockingly, I hadn't really thought of including Japan. I am not sure I would have enough slots (given the combined sizes of the other navies in 1914). If they did enter the war in the form of an expeditionary force (Japan and the Pacific Ocean are not on the map), I think it would be most logical to put them with the UK, Germany, Austria-Hungary side against US, Russia, France.

I meant who will play Japan's role, ie. slots, not the country itself. [:)] WPO/WITP are very hardcoded.

[JagdFlanker]

germany would be in japan's place, and in reading the Wit-Med expansion you can do a little editing with a hex editor to change a lot of the hard coded names. once it gets to that area i can help with that and/or mabe the gents on this thread can help

tm.asp?m=1393254&mpage=6&key=