Insufficient Memory in Win ME

[mario]

O:K; I follow's mammoth's suggestion(thanks) and I try to start a new thread.

The original message I posted was:

I run Wir 3.2 on Pentium III, 128 RAM, O.S. M.E. The game works fine, but when I use the scenario editor for changing afv in a tank div. ( no problems when I edit a bde/rgt) I get an " insufficient memory" message. I tried to save and reload and also to change the files number in System.ini( see Microsoft knowledege database), but no results. Any idea ?
Mario

Ed Cogburn answers (thank you Ed):

WIR is a DOS game, the system.ini file and the total amount of ram you have has absolutely no bearing on how the game plays in DOS mode under Windows. What you need is to get the best setup in DOS to maximize the amount of free DOS memory (the 1st 640K of ram) and in the Properties->Memory section when you right click on a DOS app desktop icon (or one in the bottom taskbar). This ought to be a FAQ too, but it'll be hell to write.

mammoth_9 comments:

hello what about reposting queries like the above on a separate thread together with the responses/ solutions ? that could serve as an FAQ


Let me add the following: wir 1.1 says it needs 575 k memory, no EMS, no XMS.
It just runs fine on my computer, game and editor alike.

Wir 3.2 runs fine too, but not so the scenario editor.

With previous O.S. it was easy to right-click on the shortcut and specify a new DOS configuration, but Win ME does nor allow it; I tried several settings of conventional memory( up to the max that my system allows me, i.e: 568), XMS, EMS,initial environment, but the result is always the same.

Starting the game from the DOS prompt is not better: same problem with the scenario editor.

Any suggestion/ help?

Thank you

Mario

[Die Kriegerin]

I've had some problems with Window ME and memory also. I've had to delete the temperary internet files, and the problem went away. I'm not sure why, they just did.

Jon

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by mario
Let me add the following: wir 1.1 says it needs 575 k memory, no EMS, no XMS.

575k is for 1.1, we're up to 3.2. I assure you the memory needed now is higher than that, probably close to 600k.

Starting the game from the DOS prompt is not better: same problem with the scenario editor.

How much free memory do you have in a DOS box? Start a DOS box and run "mem /c" and post the output of that command here.
Also, what exactly is the error message and when and where does it occur?

[mario]

Thanks, Ed.

The precise message I get when I try to change a.f.v.s types in divisions(I do not have any problem changing a.f.v. in Rgt./bde attached to H.Q.s or Armies) with scenario editor is: "Insufficient Memory available.Game in progress should be saved and restarted"(of course I tried this, but the outcome is always the same).

Running mem /c I have : conventional memory:573 k, EMS 64M, XMs 125M.

Mario

P.S. Ed, I clean up temp. Int. files on a regular basis, but this does Not have any effect on any program,as far as I can say.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by mario

Running mem /c I have : conventional memory:573 k, EMS 64M, XMs 125M.

Not enough DOS RAM, maybe 15k too short. It sounds as if you don't have any upper memory defined or you have a huge amount of drivers filling upper memory, or WinME is hogging the RAM for some reason. I don't have WinME so I can't say much for sure. I need to see the "mem /c " output because it lists all drivers currently in memory. I need you to do "mem/c > temp.txt" at a DOS prompt in a DOS box. That will create a temp.txt file with the output of "mem /c" in it. Then just cut-n-paste tempt.txt into your message and post it here

(To anyone: Does WinME use HIMEM and EMM386?)

Also, check config.sys and verify you are running HIMEM.SYS and show me the line where EMM386.EXE is run (I need to see the parameters, if any).

P.S. Ed, I clean up temp. Int. files on a regular basis, but this does Not have any effect on any program,as far as I can say.

Cleaning up temp won't affect free RAM for DOS apps.

[mario]

ED, thanks again.

mem /c>temp.txt:
Moduli utilizzanti memoria al di sotto di 1 MB:

Nome Totale Convenzionale Memoria superiore
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
MSDOS 66.912 (65K) 66.912 (65K) 0 (0K)
VMM32 2.720 (3K) 2.720 (3K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 7.280 (7K) 7.280 (7K) 0 (0K)
DOSKEY 4.688 (5K) 4.688 (5K) 0 (0K)
Disp. 573.504 (560K) 573.504 (560K) 0 (0K)

Riepilogo della memoria:

Tipo di memoria Totale Usata Disponibile
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Convenzionale 655.360 81.856 573.504
Superiore 0 0 0
Riservata 0 0 0
Estesa (XMS) 67.107.840 ? 124.510.208
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Memoria totale 67.763.200 ? 125.083.712

Tot. inf. a 1 MB 655.360 81.856 573.504

Totale espansa (EMS) 67.108.864 (64M)
Espansa disponibile (EMS) 16.777.216 (16M)
Dim. massima di un programma eseguibile 573.360 (560K)
Dim. massima di un blocco libero di memoria superiore 0 (0K)
MS-DOS Š residente nell'area di memoria alta.

[mario]

Ed,
Config.Sys:
menu]
menuitem=HELP, Guida
menuitem=CD, Avvia computer con supporto CD-ROM.
menuitem=NOCD, Avvia computer senza supporto CD-ROM.
menuitem=QUICK, Avvio minimo
menudefault=HELP,30
menucolor=7,0

[HELP]
device=oakcdrom.sys /D:mscd001
device=btdosm.sys
device=flashpt.sys
device=btcdrom.sys /D:mscd001
device=aspi2dos.sys
device=aspi8dos.sys
device=aspi4dos.sys
device=aspi8u2.sys
device=aspicd.sys /D:mscd001
devicehigh=ramdrive.sys /E 2048

[CD]
device=oakcdrom.sys /D:mscd001
device=btdosm.sys
device=flashpt.sys
device=btcdrom.sys /D:mscd001
device=aspi2dos.sys
device=aspi8dos.sys
device=aspi4dos.sys
device=aspi8u2.sys
device=aspicd.sys /D:mscd001
devicehigh=ramdrive.sys /E 2048

[NOCD]
devicehigh=ramdrive.sys /E 2048

[QUICK]

[COMMON]
files=10
buffers=10
dos=high,umb
stacks=9,256
lastdrive=z
device=display.sys con=(ega,,1)
country=039,850,country.sys
install=mode.com con cp prepare=((850) ega.cpi)
install=mode.com con cp select=850
install=keyb.com it,,keyboard.sys

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by mario

MSDOS 66.912 (65K) 66.912 (65K) 0 (0K)

Ok, your system isn't setting up upper memory to load drivers high. WinME is doing things differently from what Win95/98 does, though, so I'm not sure I can help any.

Do you have anyone with DOS/WIN experience to help you?

Look in C:\WINDOWS and see if there is a HIMEM.SYS and EMM386.EXE programs in that directory. If they are there then lets try something. Backup your config.sys first. Now put "device=c:\windows\himem.sys" and "device=c:\windows\emm386 noems ram highscan" in your config.sys file. Make sure these are run before any other "device=" lines. If EMM386 has problems remove the "highscan" from its line. On old machines this parameter can create problems. Also, if you are using (very) old software that uses EMS ram, then take "noems" out of EMM386's device= line too. Make sure the HIMEM is run before EMM386. Once youve done that, turn ALL other "device=" lines in config.sys to "devicehigh=" lines. This will try to load the drivers into upper memory. When you boot up with this setup run "mem /c" again and see how your memory has changed.

There are some other things there that don't look right, but that can be dealt with later. The output of mem on your machine shows EMS memory is available even though you haven't installed EMM386. This has me worried, its likely WinME does things differently during bootup, so my suggestion above may have no effect.. Cross your fingers and try the above and lets see if WinME still does upper memory the way Win98 does.

[Mikser]

IT people to the rescue!
Microsoft removed "redundant" features, aka backward-compatible features, from WinME. I am told that WinME does read the autoexec.bat file(not sure about config.sys), but it ignores and deletes everything except the SET PATH type lines...

For a solution as to how to enable the config.sys and autoexec.bat files, you'll want to see this page here.
http://www.geocities.com/mfd4life_2000/

It contains the necessary backup instructions, and has worked like a charm for people I know.
That should enable you to use DOS=HIGH,UMB style commands.

[mario]

Yes, WinME does have Himem. and EMM 386 files , but I believe that it ignores them, and I even believe that MS suggests to delete them if they are not used (not sure, I will check in the microsoft knowledge database).
By the way, my laptop is just 12 months old and all software is even less old, and I keep it constantly updated, so I do not think the problem is there.

Morever, I have NO PROBLEMS with other DOS programs, including games, that I tested(and then deleted).
I will try the link suggested and I will report ASAP.

Mario

[mario]

I am still(unsuccessfully) trying.

This is what I found on a Microsoft page:
One of the features in a legacy-free Windows Me environment is that the Io.sys file does not process either the Config.sys or the Autoexec.bat file. However, these files are scanned for changes to environment variables that must be imported because the files contain various settings and preferences that configure the "global environment" for the computer during the boot phase and when you start a new MS-DOS Virtual Machine (VM). When user environment settings are imported from the Config.sys file to the registry, any line in the Config.sys file that begins with one of the following directives is ignored:

ACCDATE
BREAK
BUFFERS
BUFFERSHIGH
COMMENT
COUNTRY
DEVICE
DEVICEHIGH
DOS
DRIVPARM
FCBS
FCBSHIGH
FILES
FILESHIGH
INCLUDE
INSTALL
INSTALLHIGH
LASTDRIVE
LASTDRIVEHIGH
LOGO
MENU
MENUCOLOR
MENUDEFAULT
MENUITEM
MULTITRACK
NUMLOCK
REM
SET
SHELL
STACKS
STACKSHIGH
SUBMENU
SWITCHES
Note that the SET and MENU directives are not ignored.

How do I do now?

HELP !!!

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by mario
I am still(unsuccessfully) trying.

.....

One of the features in a legacy-free Windows Me environment

A feature? More like a bug. Most of us don't *want* a legacy free environment, because its legacy DOS apps that we want to run.

.....

DEVICE
DEVICEHIGH

.....

If they are ignoring DEVICE commands then I don't know how to help. They must provide control over the memory setup of DOS boxes somewhere, it just doesn't make sense that WinMe wouldn't provide high memory in DOS boxes.

[mario]

I found an apparently perfectly safe procedure for using DOS mode under Win me but it is necessary to load files from a Win 98 or Win 98Se Cd (C:\Setupdos\Setupdos D ).
The point is: my laptop (Acer Travelmate 210 Ter) came with a pre-installed Win-me.

Can anybody help( I mean, send me the files or provide information on how/where i can download them?)

Thanks again

Mario

[Mikser]

Mario - if you can post a list of the files you require, I'll make a .ZIP file and upload them to my website...

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by mario
I found an apparently perfectly safe procedure for using DOS mode under Win me but it is necessary to load files from a Win 98 or Win 98Se Cd

I don't know, mixing Win98 programs and WinME programs may not be a good thing in the long run. The thing is, this shouldn't be necessary because there have to be some folks out there with WinME that are getting it to work for them. If it failed for everyone with WinME we'd be constantly talking about it.

Come on guys, there's got to be some folks out there with WinME that can run WIR with no problem, its time for you to sound off! Did it work out-of-the-box? Did you have to do anything to get it to work?

[Armorer]

Greetings,

I've got ME on my system and I've had no problems with WIR that I can remember. Let me know exactly what info you need, and I'll be happy to check into it for you. Please keep in mind that I'm not a computer or even ME expert, so let me know exactly what info you're looking for.

Randy

BTW, here are my current settings for my shortcut to WIR:

I don't recall if I've modified these or not, so I'm not sure if these are standard:

Ver. 3.101

In properties, under General: only Archive is checked
Under Program, Shortcut key: none, Run: normal Window
Font: I never mess with, should have no effect on the game
Conventional Memory: Total and Initial - both auto
Extended (XMS) Memory: Total - Auto; Uses HMA checked
MS-DOS protected mode memory : total - auto

Under Screen:
Usage - Full-screen, Initial Size - default
Window - both checked
Performance - both checked.

Under Misc, the following are checked:
Allow Screen-saver; Warn if Still Active; Fast Pasting;
All Windows Shortcut keys (I know I've never messed with these)


Hope this helps; if not, let me know, and I'll try to get you any more info you need.

Best,
Randy

[mario]

I received a tip for incresing memory that involves " no language options, no DOSKey and no command com."

I will test it and let everybody know.

Only if it fails I will resort to adding win98 files

Mario

[mario]

Let me report on my progress fighting for more “conventional” memory.
George Aker—Microsoft MPV-DTS has a nice webpage(http://mvps.org/dts/WinME_DOS/Win-ME.htm) How to restart from Windows Millennium into Windows 98 DOS mode .
However, as my laptop came with a pre.installed win-me, I missed the means(i.e., the win 98 Cd) for following his instructions.
George has been so kind as to suggest me to email Mike Maltby ([url]news://msnews.microsoft.com/[/url]).
I copy Mike’s answer:” I seem to recall that the best I have been able to achieve is in the high
580s but Alex Nichol reports getting 592KB free memory in a DOS window when
running Win Me. To do this means no language options, no DOSKey and no
command com.

The method of maximising free low memory is as follows:In MSConfig | International clear all panes so that no local code pages orkeyboard drivers are being loaded.Make a shortcut to the DOS program and launch the program by double clicking the shortcut. DO NOT attempt to adjust the memory page settings in the shortcut as this will load a copy of command.com which then reduces the free memory available.

To check the amount of free memory do this by making a shortcut to c:\windows\command\mem.exe and edit the shortcut properties to add the /c or/p switches rather than running mem /c /p at a DOS prompt although you might wish to do this so as to compare the free memory available at a DOS prompt compared to when using the shortcut method.

Cheers,

Mike M

Following his advice, I have been able to increase memory from 560k to 580K(593.840); this should be enough, but I have just started testing.

Mario

[gizz]

I've been having troubles running PACWAR Matrix on my Compaq, in Windows ME, I can start the game and play, but the problem is I can read the letters in the game, just no numbers(ie....1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9). The numbers show up as a block, and I can't tell how many of anything I have. I've checked my ram for DOS, it's at 596. the reason I'm here to look for simular problems in other games, hopefully someone can help you, in turn it might help me. I got 512MG of ram, and a 1.1 Ghz machine, with a 80 hard drive, this should be more than enough to run a DOS game, you would think so anyway. I hope someone out there can help.

[RickyB]

It is your BIOS. Compaq should have an update for it to fix it at their web site. Any problems, let us know.