Why I am not interested...

[JudgeDredd]

I was kind of burned with Close Combat Cross of Iron.

No-ones fault but mine...I didn't like the original CCIII (my least favourite) - it actually put me off buying anymore of the series and COI did nothing to re-ignite my initial passion for the series.

Why? Well, for me, infantry wise, the game was unplayable. Entire squads wiped out with SS style shots and mortar teams, nevermind the armour.

I tried and tried and tried to keep my troops as safe as possible up till the point of contact, but there was really no need, because as soon as contact was made, the troops died.

I could've been crap at the game, so 'm not necessarily blaming this on the devs....but I found it unplayable for infantry.

And whilst I was excited about this (being a modern warfare game), I just couldn't justify the purchase based on the COI release. That and no campaign makes the game unpurchasable for me.

I am not trying to put anyone off, or stop other people enjoying it. I just wanted the devs to know what has put me off buying it...just in case they make more...they may consider my points.

[Marc von Martial]

You need more exercise I take it [;)]

[JudgeDredd]

I don't know what that means, sorry

[Erik Rutins]

I would assume Marc meant practice, in a nice way. [;)] With that said, I'm also not that great as a player at CC, but I've seen replays of folks that can absolutely do very, very well with infantry so I know that there are plenty of things I still have to learn too. I will note though that CC:MT's battlefield is even more lethal than COI's (as it should be) so I would definitely agree that if COI is too lethal for you, CC:MT would be even beyond that.

[JudgeDredd]

Oh, ic.

I thought he just knew I was a fat bastard somehow!!

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I thought he just knew I was a fat bastard somehow!!

Well, most of us are, so he might have guessed that too. [;)]

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I don't know what that means, sorry

To make infantry survive in CC:

Use:
- cover
- supressing fire (attack and fire teams)
- even more surpressing fire
- smoke
- outflank tactics

If you run into an enemy (even worse an ambushing enemy) without any of the above your are toast in CC [;)]

[JudgeDredd]

You know, I had a big post written about how I'm no n00b blah blah blah, so I thought I would fire it up and try again....

So this is how my first scenario went in CoI...

3 infantry units, 2 machinegun units, 1 HMG unit, 1 Stug III and a mortar unit and Group Leader

Stug III on the brow of the hill to cover same with HMG mortar unit behind hill and set to lay smoke in front of hut on west of river (there is a AT gun in there).

It all kicks off.

HMG opens up on infantry crawling on north west of river
Stug II set to fire on building where suspected gun is
1 MG unit in building to far west to provide supressing fire where AT gun is.

So I have Stug III and 1 MG unit providing supressing fire on AT and smoke being laid

I sneak 2 infantry units up to building and when I'm within 30 yards and then I set to move fast to close on the building
They are wiped out as soon as they stand up, despite the HMG supressing fire...despite the Stug III supressing fire and despite the 2 MG units I now have opening up on the enemy

In short, as soon as my unito show their heads, they are totalled. I use smoke and it's useless. Unless the smoke is DIRECTLY between the unit and the enemy, they will be opened up on. It is truly useless.

Smoke form your troops is just as back because as soon as they stand up to launch smoke, they are totalled.

I'd like to hear from anyone esle who thinks it's doable...because I've played this mission 3 times now and at the most I have taken 1 control point.

I know this sounds like it should be in the CoI forum, but I wanted to see whether this was different or not.

[Andrew Williams]

I seem to march back and forth across eastern europe without too much problem.

Did you have a command team exerting influence on your attacking teams?

[JudgeDredd]

Yes...Group Leader and I kept them as close as I dare with the infantry units.

[JudgeDredd]

oh...and this was on the easiest setting!

[Behemoth]

Sorry Dredd, I don't have CoI, but in the old CC, there was friendly fire. Did you cease fire of your own units before the charge? I used to mow down my units a lot until I realized what I was doing. perhaps this isn't helpful, I was just on and thought I'd drop my 2 cents.

[JudgeDredd]

No seriously...this is not my units causing the damage to my units. As soon as my men show their faces, they are dead.

I might see if I can make a video of it just to show, but I have no idea how big it would be.

[davmarksman]

JudgeDredd does have a point with infantry getting massacared. its hard to advance with infantry and tanks against a well inplaced emeny defensive postion combing AT & infantry, and thats just against the AI. But CC infantry combat is better compared to games like sudden strike

[davmarksman]

p.s. a campaign for CC:MT would be nice

________________________________________________________________________________________
"The infantry is there so that when some die the generals know where to direct the artillery fire"

[Duck Doc]

I am just lurking & I have no idea how I got here but here goes.

Seems to me this is a true statement on any modern battlefield, WW2 & beyond. Hi-diddle-diddle-straight-up-the-middle is a good way to get yourself killed.

The U.S. Army in WW2 taught their infantry only this: fire & maneuver = fire to suppress & pin enemy then maneuver to flank or envelop them.

I played some of the original CC series & at the tactical level the game represents one must use all the cover & defilade & smoke (& mirrors...) available to conceal your forces then maneuver on the enemy without being exposed.

I never had any problem with my infantry because I took good care of them [:D] .

Thanks for re-kindling my in interest in cc: coi! I just may jump in.

ORIGINAL: davmarksman

JudgeDredd does have a point with infantry getting massacared. its hard to advance with infantry and tanks against a well inplaced emeny defensive postion combing AT & infantry, and thats just against the AI. But CC infantry combat is better compared to games like sudden strike

[JudgeDredd]

Well Dale, I can assure you...

Hi-diddle-diddle-straight-up-the-middle

is not a tactic I employ.

There is plenty of smoke kicking about...plenty of sneaking, plenty of fire and manouvre and plenty of flanking...but same old story...as soon as my men show their faces, they are taken out. I'm sure war is that brutal, but it makes the game no fun.

The problem I am mentioning here was the very reason I stopped playing CoI within 2 weeks of buying it and exactly the reason why I have offered it free of charge to a good home in the General Discussion forum.

I only installed it again to justify my comments by playing rather than trying to remember what happened.

As it stands, someone has asked for it and I will gladly be shipping it to them. Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything different about this game.

Anyway, I'll leave you lot in peace now to enjoy your game [:D]

[Motomouse]

infantry frontal assault - dont do it unless you outnumber (locally?) the enemy like 3 : 1 (minimum)
even if you outnumber the enemy more than 3 : 1 a flanking maneuvre would be more effective perhaps
is it really necessary to assault a certain position to achieve your overall goals?

In CoI perhaps you dont have to achieve a decisive win in the mission on the first try? Often it takes severel rounds on the same map and you just advance one victory location or you get a draw and you are waiting for your next chance.

Just some thoughts, I am definitly no expert on this topic
Regards
Motomouse

[Duck Doc]

Sorry. I re-read your original post & you say you are maneuvering under cover.

I meant my reply mainly in response to davmarksman.

Sad you don't like the game. If the other person doesn't want it I will take it off your hands & even pay you for it.

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Well Dale, I can assure you...

Hi-diddle-diddle-straight-up-the-middle

is not a tactic I employ...


Anyway, I'll leave you lot in peace now to enjoy your game [:D]

[Banquet]

I know where Judge is coming from. I have CoI and enjoyed it very much. However it does seem that infantry is just a sideline to armour. I haven't played for a while (been playing AT) but I remember a tank shell or mortar round taking out just about a whole squad, pretty much as soon as it was spotted. I ended up spending as many points on vehicles as I could as that seemed to be what the AI was doing.

I was interested to check out Modern Tactics but hearing there's no campaign (a highlight of CoI) and reading about the increased lethality of weapon systems has made me decide to hold off on a purchase.

That being said Modern Tactics seems to be aimed at MP games rather than campaigns and I hope it has great success. It's early days in terms of feedback and I still may buy the game in the future