ACW Routing Question

[sparty_slith]

Okay so I feel like I'm getting the hang of the basic mechanics of gameplay, but I am consistently finding that after I successfully melee and win within a turn my units end up routed along with those nearby.

I understand that after a melee attack both the attackers and defenders become disrupted. I have even moved leaders into the hex with the victorious melee unit(s) to assist in preventing the rout.

Any suggestions to avoid the route post melee assault victory?

[1925frank]

Sparty, I've been waiting for someone to answer your question.  This is what I remember from playing the game ten years ago:  It's not enough to put a leader in the same hex.  The leaders, from lowest to intermediate to highest, have to all remain within a certain radius of each other.  The higher up the chain that the link is maintained, the more likely the units will not route.  If there's a break in the chain, especially if the break is near the level of the units, the more likely the units are to route.  My recollection is the difference can be quite pronounced, so maintaining that linkage up the chain of command was very important.  The manuals back then discussed how it works.  It's not really intuitive from playing the game. 

[sparty_slith]

That makes sense.  Thank you for the response I'll have to play around with it a bit and see how it goes.

[1925frank]

If I remember correctly, there's a small circle or a small circle with a diagonal line through that appears on the leader when the leader is out of the range of his immediate superior.  I think it's called being "in command."  There may be an explanation in the help dialogue.

[sparty_slith]

[NOTE: Capitalized words added to stress, not to yell )

Thanks again.

I took a look at the documentation, the online help, and the UI and here's what I've discovered.

1 - Units can route, according to the documentation, for a one reason:
     a) Your unit suffers a combat effect that would raise their fatigue rating over 9.

That said...

Once a unit routes, all adjacent units must immediately pass a command check.  The manual does not describe what happens if these units FAIL that check, I assume they just become disrupted, but it is entirely possible that they may route as well.

Command Radius play a big role in command dice modifiers.

Here's a quick summary:

- Each LEADER has a command radius.
- Units of that leader's unit (whatever size) WITHIN that command radius benefits from a COMMAND RATING MODIFIER
- In turn, each leader DOWN the CHAIN OF COMMAND passes along their modifier that is IN ADDITION to the COMMAND RATING MODIFIER passed to it from its LEADER.

So...at the start of EACH PLAYER TURN a check is made to determine whether a leader is IN COMMAND or no.

If the LEADER is IN COMMAND, he begins passing his COMMAND RATING MODIFIER down the CHAIN OF COMMAND.  Any units outside of a leader in the unit (whatever size) is considered DETACHED and receives NO COMMAND RATING MODIFIER.

There is no icon on the LEADER's portrait or detail area that indicates whether the leader is IN COMMAND as far as I can see (Bull Run as my example).

I wonder, if perhaps the way routing is handled in the games is different slightly?

[1925frank]

Yes, it's certainly possible. 
 
I found my old "Prelude to Waterloo" manual but not the Bull Run one.  Fatigue factored into the die roll when determining whether a unit routed.  Low fatigue (4 to 6?) would subtract one from the die roll, and high fatigue (7-9?) would subtract two from the die roll.  There are other factors too, like whether the unit is disordered or low on ammo and whether the unit was attacked enfilade.  A leader stacked with the unit increased the die roll by one.  The die roll was measured against the unit's quality. 
 
The circle appears, if it appears at all, when you select the unit.  It may not be a part of Bull Run at all.
 
Whether the unit is in command affects whether the unit rallies.  Detached units rally poorly.  Units in command are more likely to rally.
 
There are variations between the games, but the principles were the same.  Hopefully tomorrow someone more familiar with Bull Run can fill us both in.

[1925frank]

I found a "Shiloh" manual, and it's giving similar info.  Look under "Morale Check" to see what triggers one and what factors play into it.  Then look under leaders for "L," which governs a leader's ability to rally routed units. 

[sparty_slith]

Thanks man.  Yeah it looks like it's a Bull Run issue.

I did work with the leader units and found that I had far fewer routes happen.

Understanding and managing unit fatigue is pretty important from what I'm beginning to learn.  These aren't motorized infantry divisions from WWII!

[Ashantai]

Umm...this isn't how I understand it. What you describe above is Command - recovering from disruption.
 
What stops a unit routing is its quality. A leader in a unit raises the unit's quality to its L level OR 1 more depending on which is better.
 
When a unit routs all nearby units must take a test. If they pass they are disrupted. If they fail they run...and so on.
 
That is my understanding.

[1925frank]

Thanks, Ashantai, that sounds right.  After looking at an old manual, the command and control relates only to recovery from disruption. 

Does it also relate to recovery from routing, or is that simply a function of putting a leader with a high L in the same hex as the unit?

The old manual also drew a distinction between a morale check during a defensive and one during an offensive phase.  If you passed during a defensive phase, there was no effect on the unit, but it you passed during an offensive phase, the unit became disrupted.  If you failed during a defensive phase, the unit became disrupted, and if you failed during an offensive phase, the unit routed.

During melee, the units are automatically disrupted, but if they fail the morale check, they rout?

From the old manuals, I understood when a unit routed, the units in the same hex and adjacent hexes did a morale check, but I had no clue what the consequences were.  You're saying those units, even if they pass their morale check, will become disrupted.

I haven't played the games in years, but I enjoyed them. 

[1925frank]

I've looked at the old Shiloh and NIR manuals. 

Whether a unit becomes disordered or routs depends on its quality as modified by a list of factors, including fatigue.

Whether a unit rallies from a routed status depends on its quality as modified by a leader, as explained by Ashantai.  In NIR, a wing, corp, or army comander could also be in an adjacent hex, but I didn't see that in Shiloh.

Whether a unit reforms from disrupted status depends on the command and control factors, not on the unit's quality.

I'm still confused about morale checks during offensive or defensive phases, but I'm assuming that because I haven't played the game in so long.

[sparty_slith]

Okay I see it now.

Rally is what reforms disrupted units and improves routed units to disrupted status.

Route is an effect caused exclusively by the fatigue of the unit exceeding 9.

Is that correct?

[1925frank]

Sparty, I think we're like two blind men trying to give each other directions.
 
In NIR, routed units rally, and disrupted units reform.  I don't know if the civil war manuals draw a distinction in terminology, but I find the distinction useful.
 
Units rout or become disrupted based upon their quality (in civil war games, its a letter A (best) to F (worst) and based upon a number of other factors, one of which is the level of fatigue.  There are about 7 or 8 factors that are listed in, I believe, the "morale check" portion of the manual.  If only units with a fatigue of 9 rout in Bull Run, then that is different.  I don't know what the Matrix manuals say because I have only the old Talonsoft manuals, and I don't have the one specifically for Bull Run.  I do recall in Shiloh having units of very low quality in the West (a Wilson's Creek scenario perhaps) where the units routed very easily notwithstanding any fatigue that I remember.  Entire lines would take flight.
 
Good luck. 

[Ashantai]

If a unit takes damage from a defensive fire phase attack it must take a test. If passed there is no effect, if failed they become disrupted. The same test is taken for units who take damage in the Offensive Fire/Melee phases. Only this time, if they pass they are disordered, and if they fail they run away. All adjacent units must take the same test, and it is quite possible for 10+ units to fail their tests and flee.

[1925frank]

Thank you, Ashantai.
 
In that Wilson's Creek scenario, I believe I had units with D and E ratings, and whole wings would start running the first time one of them took losses.  After that, I tried to keep them apart, so that if one routed, the others wouldn't, but I don't know if that was a smart way to handle it or not.
 

[sparty_slith]

Thank you for the information.  I wish the manual and online help were a bit more explicit as to how these things work.  I'm guessing that the older manuals were a bit more detailed?

[1925frank]

Even the best manuals don't cover everything.  If you've got questions, this is the right place to go.

[Ashantai]

One works it out through trial and error, really....