Compliments to the computer, though I did get my comeuppance this evening - I invaded Shortland, and woah, there were 27,000 fanatical combat troops on there, who promptly annhilated the 1st Marines...
Been there, done that, except it was 80,000 the time I tried it! Wiped 'em out as they got off the ships. :rolleyes:
I'll be very interested to see some posts from those who have gotten past the Buna-Lae-Lunga barrier and into Operation Cartwheel territory. It strikes me that palatable options for continued advance decrease sharply at this point...
Iain Christie
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"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"
Several interesting points made in this thread. As Japan, I say, don't hesitate to take Lunga and Tulagi quickly, even if you really want to concentrate on PM. A minimum of forces will do in the beginning.
I did so successfully (even though I'm three carriers short, and also lost CA's to the infamous "courageous lone destroyer" phenomenon.)
But building up the airbase at Lunga and denying it to the enemy is worth it. Mining of the area is vital, too. The US navy often tries to shell the Island at night, and they equally often hit mines. When I got my huge supply of heavies and additional carriers in June 42, I successfully set up an ambush at Lunga. Place your superior surface fleet somewhat to the NE of Lunga and set on "patrol"-"react"). They will then intercept the nightly attacks. This strategy lead to my first really satisfactory sea battle in the game with a huge bunch of Amerikan combat vessels lying asleep in Iron Bottom Sound now. All this did not detract too much resources for the PM operation (which is still under way).
Well I let the IJN have Lunga and Tulagi. But I am making them pay heavily for every day they keep it.
Lunga is an almost permanent hunting ground for at least one of my sub patrols the biggest problem being to keep up with the rate of torpedo usage, plus whenever I know the enemy CV's are off base near New Guinea I send a CV sorties up to Santa Cruz and give a couple of convoys a good pasting.
So far the Japs seem to have infantry ashore but not much else. no sign of aircraft or airfields yet. Meanwhile I now have 4 x CV's and a squadron of B17's at Lunganville ready to add to their troubles.
I am hoping by the time Lunga and Tulagi get developed enough to be a problem I will have the strength to deal with them.
I am also having fun with Lunga in scen 17. The Japanese took it first but I managed to kick them off with the entire Americal division. Fortunately the Japanese carriers were in the Bismarck sea when I invaded as they were dealing with my recent landing which captured Lae with the Australian 7th Division. By the time the Jap carriers got back to the Solomons, my own carriers had left but every last Jap on Guadalcanal had been wiped out.
The Japs then proceeded to blast the crap out of Lunga with carrier air. Here is a snippet from my AAR which covers the fighting around Guadalcanal
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15th June 1942
With the arrival of the Enterprise, there are now four fleet carriers, five heavy cruisers, two light cruisers and a large number of destroyers at Noumea, not to mention an ever increasing array of transports. It is time to give the Japanese carriers something to think about. Two carrier task forces are created. TF218 contains the Enterprise and the Hornet, three cruisers and seven destroyers and is commanded by Rear Admiral Spruance. TF219 comprises the Lexington and the Yorktown, three cruisers and seven destroyers and is commanded by Rear Admiral Montgomery. A fleet of six troop transports and four destroyers will carry a coastal defence battery, an armoured battalion and additional supplies to Lunga. A fleet of two transports and two destroyers will pick up an engineer battalion which is upgrading one of New Caledonia's airbases and transport that to Lunga to begin work on a new airbase.
Eleven Hudsons, twenty-three Mitchells and forty-three Marauders from Lae raid the port at Rabaul. The combat air patrol shoots down three bombers for the loss of four Zeroes. Assuming the pilot's reports are correct, the bombers sink a minesweeper, a gunboat and a collier and seriously damage another minesweeper and two gunboats.
The Japanese carriers move down the Slot again and a massive air-strike from over a hundred carrier-based bombers wreaks havoc at Lunga. Over six hundred men are killed. Despite the raids, three fast transports sneak into Lunga harbour and unload supplies.
16th June 1942
TF205 arrives at Gili-Gili and begins unloading elements of the 3rd Australian Division. Japanese land-based bombers from Rabaul launch two strikes against the task force and torpedo the destroyer Walke. The Japanese carriers launch another large raid on Lunga. The defenders are being severely pounded.
17th June 1942
Another hundred bomber raid on Lunga. Five hundred men are killed. If this continues much longer there will be nothing left of the Americal Division. Fifty allied bombers raid Rabaul, damaging four ships in the port.
18th June 1942
A small detachment of Australian troops from the 7th Division captures the small Saidor airbase sixty miles north of Lae.
20th June 1942
TF218 and TF219 move up the eastern coast of Malaita and detect a strong Japanese force approaching Guadalcanal. Although our intelligence suggested the Japanese had four carriers in the area, one of which was estimated to be Shoho, a light carrier, they in fact turn out to have four fleet carriers, two light carriers and two battleships plus a large number of cruisers and destroyers. The enemy carriers are identified as the Shokaku, Zuikaku, Kaga, Junyo, Shoho and Ryujo and the battleships as the Kongo and Kirishima. Enemy scout planes spot the allied task forces and a massive carrier versus carrier battle breaks out.
Over the course of the daylight hours, a large number of raids are launched by both sides. However, the combat air patrols seem to win the day. We lose a hundred and twelve aircraft in attacks on the enemy fleet and our pilots only report four bomb hits. Two on the Zuikaku and one each on the Junyo and Shoho. None of these hits are confirmed and given the sometimes optimistic reports of our pilots, we must assume the enemy has suffered little damage. Fortunately, the enemy raids were met with our own combat air patrol and our flak gunners and fighter pilots are claiming almost one hundred and thirty kills, almost certainly a large over-estimate. Enterprise took one bomb hit with minor damage but otherwise our ships survived unscathed.
The carriers being moving southwards to the gap between Malaita and San Cristobal, trying to throw off the enemy search planes while providing cover for the approaching transport convoy which is bringing additional troops and supplies to Lunga.
21st June 1942
The submarine S-38 reports torpedoing a Japanese carrier, possibly the Zuikaku.
The main Japanese force retreats along the Slot then moves north between Santa Isabel and Choiseul. They launch a new raid from three hundred miles away, well beyond the range of any of our own carrier based aircraft. Fortunately, none of our ships take any hits. We will have to proceed with the utmost caution against the enemy carriers, either remaining well out of the range of enemy aircraft or charging into the range of our own aircraft.
Our carrier task forces move south to Rennell Island, from where they can provide air cover for Lunga without risking further enemy air attack.
22nd June 1942
The enemy carriers and their escorts disappear northwards without further incident. TF222 arrives at Lunga and begins unloading a few extra troops plus additional supplies. The allied carriers remain near Rennell Island to cover the resupply operation.
23rd June 1942
Two Japanese heavy cruisers, the Mogami and the Chokai, sneak down the Slot at night and suddenly appear among the transports unloading at Lunga. Four destroyers put up a brave fight but they are outgunned. The destroyer Alwin and the troop transport Crescent City are sunk and the Troop transport President Polk is heavily damaged. The destroyers' estimate they scored several hits on both cruisers with their five inch guns. The cruisers are well gone before daylight. To prevent this from happening again, a force of cruisers and destroyers detached from the carrier task forces is sent to Lunga to protect the convoy while it completes unloading.
The submarine SS-43 reports that she has torpedoed the carrier Zuikaku south of Truk. If all the damage reports are true, Zuikaku should be out of commission for quite a while.
The Japs launch a land-based air raid on Lunga but Wildcats from the US carriers intercept the strike and shoot down several Zeroes and Bettys.
The Japanese troops which retreated from Nazdab when it was captured by the 21st Australian Brigade are in a small enclave on the coast of New Guinea south of Lae. Over the last few days, small Jap transports have been running either supplies or extra troops to this force. Airacobras from Buna have been sinking a few of the small transports but the majority are getting through. As usual the level bombers at Lae seem reluctant to engage enemy naval vessels.
24th June 1942
Nine B17s raid Shortland harbour, damaging three troop transports. Sixty medium bombers from Lae and Port Moresby bomb enemy troops in the Admiralty Islands.
More transports arrive at Lunga and unload troops and supplies under the cover of heavy thunderstorms. The cruiser/destroyer task force is guarding the approaches to the harbour but there is no repeat of yesterday's cruiser raid.
25th June 1942
A Japanese sub launches two unsuccessful attacks on the destroyer screen of the Enterprise. The screen is unable to pin down the location of the sub. The carriers move away from the area but stay within long cap range of Lunga.
Airacobras from Lae and Buna continue to bomb and strafe small transports trying to supply and reinforce the small Japanese land force on New Guinea. Several transports are sunk. It is time this annoying Japanese ground force was eliminated. The 21st Australian Infantry Brigade, which captured Nazdab, is ordered to move south and attack the Japanese forces. This will require a trek through hostile jungle and it will be at least a week before any attack can be launched.
More allied bombing raids are launched against the Admiralty Islands and the Shortland Islands. All allied bombers in Lae and Port Moresby are now ordered to concentrate on the Japanese pocket south of Lae in order to soften it up before the Australian troops arrive.
26th June 1942
The Japanese use the cover of night and heavy thunderstorms to try and launch another bombardment raid on the base at Lunga. This time however, instead of two heavy cruisers they send the battleships Kirishima and Kongo, escorted by four destroyers. The defending force of four heavy cruisers, two light cruisers and four destroyers spots them at five thousand yards, virtually point blank, and a brutal, close range battle ensues. The heavy cruiser Chester is sunk. The heavy cruisers Portland and Minneapolis and the light cruiser Honolulu are severely damaged. Three other ships suffer light damage. The Japanese battleships are pounded by a mixture of eight inch, six inch and five inch shells plus torpedoes from the destroyers. Both suffer more than thirty hits each and their blazing hulks sink off the coast of Guadalcanal. Three enemy destroyers join them on the bottom. Only the destroyer Fubuki lives to tell the tale. Despite the heavy loss of life on our side, this must be regarded as a famous victory.
Portland and Minneapolis and Honolulu are in no condition to retreat to Noumea so they are ordered to dock at Lunga. They will have to brave enemy air raids until their can be repaired sufficient to risk the trip to a major port. The destroyer Balch is ordered home to Noumea for repairs. The heavy cruiser Vincennes, which performed superbly during the battle, slamming a hail of eight inch shells into Kongo, is ordered to maintain the patrol off Lunga. She is accompanied by the light cruiser Nashville and three destroyers.
In my current game, the Japs took Lunga early. They fully built it (6 air, 3 port), and dropped 5 engineer units, 4(!) CD batteries, and 2 infantry brigades there to defend the new Betty base.
My response was to build a base on Irau (ESE tip of San Cristobal) to max size, and staff it with fighters. By this time I had received both BB's and began regular runs from Irau to Lunga to pop the transports there.
After about a month of that, I had an invasion fleet ready. My BB's were sent in night after night in relays to pound the airfield into the sea, and never got hit in return by the LBA (I have 178 fighters at Irau). Well, I landed 4 divisions (1st and 2nd Marine, 43rd, and Americal), 2 Seabee, and 2 base force units, 30k supplies, and 40k+ fuel at Taivu. I moved my 4CV's to Irau at this time.
The IJN tried to interfere once with a 4CA 1CL 4DD Surface Combat TF, and promptly got pounded beneath the waves. Because my CV's were at Irau, I nearly wiped out that TF. I was able to march to Lunga and begin a seige, while my Seabees built Taivu to max size.
Well, right now Lunga is shut down, and the Japs have lost 3-5 transports and 4-10 barges a day for the past 10 days in a desparate attempt to reenforce Lunga. I also ground up another SC TF. During this whole period, I've lost maybe 7AP's and a few DD's.
I'd have to say that the key to holding Lunga is all in not letting the other side build advance bases in the area. Irau is particularly well suited for this as it's out of range of Rabaul but just within normal F4 range of Lunga. It's also well within range of SBD's. My invasion force at Taivu routinely had in excess of 150 F4's and P38's on long range CAP, and I decimated the Japanese LBA; so much so that they haven't launched an attack anywhere for 2 1/2 weeks. Lunga is about to fall, and I've essentially won.
johnmac and Iain,
Did you guys recon the base before you invaded? I took the recon P38's from Oz and sent them to Irau for a week. The reason I sent 4 divisions to Taivu was that I knew exactly what was at Lunga. All in all, I estimated that there were something like 32k troops defending Lunga, and when I got there there were something like 28k (the infantry had been withdrawn while the troops were on the way). Had I not done this, I likely would have been chewed up on the landings by the CD batteries.
EDIT: Another point in favor of Irau is that the BB's can make Lunga and back in one night on bombardment. Same for protective SC TF's going in to counter-intercept the anti-invasion SC TF's.
I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!
In the camp im playing as allied ( scen. 16 ) I took Lunga as fast as I could. PM was getting pounded and while I was worried that it would fall (not sure if the AI is programed to make a grab at it) looking at my ship availability I saw that I would get the Sara, Enterprise, Wasp within a period of two weeks of each other. I was building up Luganville with aircraft, supplies, and fuel (makes a great fueling base for SC TFs guarding Lunga).
The Japs took Gilla. A few days later I had all 3 carriers, a SC TF built around the Washington, and 3 transport TFs leave port and head to Lunga. With all TFs keeping in the same hex and having spotted the Jap carriers over by PM I set all fighters to LRCAP and invaded Lunga. The 90 some fighters ate the LBA from Rabal and the shortlands alive with the loss of a destroyer and after 2 days they were useless. After the second day the base was mine and I flew in as many fighters as I could setting them to LRCAP. I picked up 3 Carriers heading towards me so I ordered all TFs to head east out of the combat zone and waited with my carriers on react. My carriers moved 2 hexes west (still covered by Lunga's LRCAP, my 3 fighter groups had been changed to 70% cap) and battle was joined at a range of 4 hexes. I chewed up his strikes (total cap was over 100 ac) and the AI must have drawn the short end for availability since all he had was 2 CVLs and the CV Junyo. Junyo and a CVL went to the bottom and not one of my ships was hit.
After that I took back Gilla before the end of august, took Lae (same style as before but with 4 carriers) in October and should take the shortlands by the end of november. If an allied player holds PM and Lunga in strength then there isnt much the AI can do except be pounded day after day by heavy bombers (got to love port attacks when there are ships parked there) while each base puts up more than 100 fighters in cap each day to chew up whatever Rabal sends out.
Personally I think the best thing for an allied player is to take Lunga asap. Every day you dont it gets stronger and its much harder to deal with than Port Morsby or Gilla in Jap hands since those to sit so close to Australia.
Sci-fi channel SUCKS.
One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency.
-- Arnold H. Glasow
As Japan, I say, don't hesitate to take Lunga and Tulagi quickly, even if you really want to concentrate on PM. A minimum of forces will do in the beginning. 
