Bwheatley vs abulbulian WaW v32 (abulbulian not to look!)

[zook08]

About mortars: in AT, they are purely offensive weapons. Machineguns, OTOH, are purely defensive.

About mobilty: look at the screenshots. A lot of bwheatley's poor Russians are cut off and will simply wither away. That's because they had no transport and could not run away when the time came. His opponent however seems to have a very mobile force. That makes fortifications almost useless, because he does not have to attack them. He can simply bypass them, and it seems that's what he's doing.

[jjdenver]

[/quote]

OTOH: you're still not building combined arms units. Your tanks in Spain have no infantry at all. Your infantry in Russia has almost no AT weapons. Look at your opponent's units - that's what yours should look like, too. An infantry division is made up of Rifles, Horses and either mortars or machineguns. A tank division is made up of the same, just with some tanks attached, and all motorized. You're spending 20,000 points on Rifle each turn and only 6,000 on AT weapons, although it's his tank army that tears you apart. Rifles are mostly just cannon fodder in AT. They don't score a lot of kills. They're the screen protecting your high-value units, nothing more.

Bwheatley - this is very good advice. One of the things that really stood out in your AAR is your lack of combined arms. For example having 5 tanks in a unit alone moving into Madrid is just not going to work. First medium tanks are very expensive units that you just can't afford to throw away. They can each carry 5 foot SFT carry points and they should be loaded up. I wouldn't even stack 5 medium tanks together honestly unless you are sure he can't bomb that unit. I'd go with more like 1 armored car (to give you cheap but good effect vs infantry), 1 light tank (good vs infantry as well but decent vs tanks), 1 medium tank, 1 heavy tank/tank destroyer. Then with those 4 SFT's I'd stack something like 5 mortars (to help them in rough terrain on attacks), 10 SMG (good attacking rough terrain), and 5 rifle or MG (good for defense vs infantry-heavy attacks). This combined arms approach will make your armor units a lot more resilient and not so juicy for air strikes.

In addition your infantry units really need to be:
A) horsed if possible - 1 horse per 10 carry weight.
B) mixed - you can't stack for instance 5 AT guns in a hex - your opponent will just bomb that hex and easily kill them. You can't stack 5 flak in a hex either - it's just not efficient - he'll use some artillery to reduce their effectiveness then bomb and kill them too. Instead go with a nice mixture for units and spread your flak out.

So a nice infantry unit might be:
30 Rifle
2 MG
1 Bazooka
2 Mortar
1 AT gun
1 Infantry gun
15 SMG
7 horses

This sort of infantry unit is strong vs everything and weak vs nothing. It also is great for assaulting rough terrain. If you want a pure defensive unit you can remove the SMG's and a mortar. It's nice to have some strong backline units though so I'd leave at least one mortar and/or the infantry gun.

Also - infantry alone if high tech is pretty good in defense in rough vs everything - you may not even need the AT gun at all. I've seen 10 conscripts give a good battle to a panzer division that attacked it in a city without prior bombardment.

Anyway - the point is if you don't use combined arms within your units you make it easy for your opponent to counter your unit (he will pick either armor, air, artillery, etc).

Move some flak around behind your lines (4 flak w/ 4 horses per unit) to attrit and blunt his airpower.

I also agree w/ Seille that you need a couple of tank units, and each turn or at least every other turn pick out an exposed German unit, bomb it, hit it with artillery, then destroy it w/ your tanks and retreat them back behind the lines again. Make him pay for overextending.

Btw - this seems like a great learning game for you!

[seille]

Yes, the numbers....unfortunately the AT gun is not effective against other targets (rifle is).
And it´s not mobile enough.
 
Of course the AT gun is not bad if it has enough XP and it has a heavy frontline protection,
but i still don´t buy them (or very rarely)

[seille]

I still say (high) mobility is not needed when you´re in complete defense.
It is simply a question of priority to produce either all these trucks/horses or
combat troops that inflict damage or at least slow the enemy down.
 
But don´t misunderstand. When i start to attack most of my units will be mobile
and while in defense i have often a few fast armored units for counter attacks behind
the frontline.
 
If you guy´s don´t think this can work i´m willing to show you in a Russia 1941 game with me as Russia.
I promise i won´t produce a single AT gun [;)]
 

[zook08]

I'd even specialize some more. For example, the Armored car's specialty is recon, and anti-infantry as a second. A lot of my attacks fail because my pixel corps overlooked half the enemy army in the target hex. So I concentrate the ACs in recon units, together with Scouts or Rifle. They are very fast and strong enough to overrun weak remaining enemy units without taking too many losses, but their real job is to tell me what's out there, not to fight. Every type in AT has it's strengths and weaknesses and you have to get the most out of their strengths if you want to win.

I wouldn't even stack 5 medium tanks together honestly unless you are sure he can't bomb that unit. I'd go with more like 1 armored car (to give you cheap but good effect vs infantry), 1 light tank (good vs infantry as well but decent vs tanks), 1 medium tank, 1 heavy tank/tank destroyer. Then with those 4 SFT's I'd stack something like 5 mortars (to help them in rough terrain on attacks), 10 SMG (good attacking rough terrain), and 5 rifle or MG (good for defense vs infantry-heavy attacks).

I'd arther mix medium and light tanks, and not build heavies at all unless the opposition has a lot of mediums. They are too expensive, especially in supply cost, to do the work that your mediums can do equally well. And IMO, MGs have no place in armor units.

So a nice infantry unit might be:
30 Rifle
2 MG
1 Bazooka
2 Mortar
1 AT gun
1 Infantry gun
15 SMG
7 horses

That way you'd mix offensive and defensive units, and a lot of your units will end up in fights where there don't belong. Of course you can't always prevent that, but I think it's better to have smaller units tailored to the different tasks:

Standard infantry (offensive):
40 Rifle
6 Mortar

Add some tanks and it's a tank division.

Defensive:
10 Rifle
6 MG
2 AT gun
1 Flak, maybe

For attacking cities and forests:
30 SMG
4 Mortar
some Infantry guns (only if you got some for free at the start of the game, don't build them)

For defending cities and forts:
30 SMG
6 MG
2 AT gun (maybe replace with bazookas to save money, tanks suck in urban terrain)

And of course everyone is mounted/motorized.

You attack with infantry and armor and if you're worried about a counterattack, you just move your defensive units *on top* of the spearhead stack. If you're the attacker, like bwheatley's opponent in this game, you need very few of those.

Also - infantry alone if high tech is pretty good in defense in rough vs everything - you may not even need the AT gun at all. I've seen 10 conscripts give a good battle to a panzer division that attacked it in a city without prior bombardment.

Nope. Rifle I or Rifle IV, it doesn't matter. Not counting the occasional lucky hit, infantry is only a danger to armor when the tanks are unsupported by infantry themselves, because then the infantry will break through easily and has a chance to kill the tanks without suffering their return fire.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: seille

@zook08
bwheatley is producing already rifle III. That means he has +50% against tanks already.
This should be more than enough AT power. The key is he has to attack. He has to use the good
effect of his divebombers by strong counterattacks. Knocking out some german units is needed.
With Rifle III already available i would not produce any AT weapons and no MG. A few mortars when he start attacks maybe.
Backbone will always be rifle or SMG.
Btw, rifle used in good numbers will hit the enemy very hard. Off course they can perform much better when the attack is prepared
by air attacks or artillery and the enemy is in open terrain.

@bwheatley
1 tank can carry 5 men.
If you´re not the attacker i don´t think you should give your units mobility. Each truck you add
can be destroyed easily by ai attack. And one truck represent 10 rifle III.
10 trucks = 100 rifle III. What has actually more value for you ?

If the enemy attacks try to blow bridges in front of him, build fortifications, defend behind rivers
and try to place your forces in forrests or urban hexes, not in the open.

Avoid AS losses ! You have to route the production to other places if enemy forces block your supply path.

I thought 1 truck carried 20 units not 10? or is it 10 in WAW?

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: seille

I still say (high) mobility is not needed when you´re in complete defense.
It is simply a question of priority to produce either all these trucks/horses or
combat troops that inflict damage or at least slow the enemy down.

But don´t misunderstand. When i start to attack most of my units will be mobile
and while in defense i have often a few fast armored units for counter attacks behind
the frontline.

If you guy´s don´t think this can work i´m willing to show you in a Russia 1941 game with me as Russia.
I promise i won´t produce a single AT gun [;)]

I agree with you seille thats what i've been trying to do as russia use my limited money to give him as much a fight as i can. Now that i built my defense wrong hes taken baku and i'm in a real pickle now. Russia for me is a just a holding front. Trying to delay as long as i can because i know the west is goign to have to save the day now.. just like in real life

[seille]

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

I thought 1 truck carried 20 units not 10? or is it 10 in WAW?

I talked about production costs.
For one truck you can produce 10 rifle.
That´s why i would think twice if i need the luxury of mobile units while in defense.

[bwheatley]

Thanks zook jj & seille i appreciate the schooling yes this is a good learning game for me.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: seille

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

I thought 1 truck carried 20 units not 10? or is it 10 in WAW?

I talked about production costs.
For one truck you can produce 10 rifle.
That´s why i would think twice if i need the luxury of mobile units while in defense.

oh gotcha LOL

[bwheatley]

December 1942 at least US will get full production soon !!

[bwheatley]

The destruction of the indian fleet my med battleships were 1 turn awy from preventing their destruction!

Well i'm not used to playing against a compotent navy so this is definately something to think about. Navies are much more powerful then i've been aware of.

[bwheatley]

The year of pain continues as half the us fleet is sunk. I sent spruance out to look on the other side after this and he just sinks away? Where do you think he's putting into port everytime? It's like hes a ghost hits and runs and i can't stop him. I'm building 8 AC air in hawaii so next time he comes to visit it should be a more fun trip hopefully.

[bwheatley]

The Soviets. The baku area has fallen and the USSR has become really a matter of time for me. I know the success of this war lays in the west. If the soviets fall next will be britian and america will stand alone.

[bwheatley]

The one luxury i've given myself has been a good USSR air froce and this time i find one of his struck units and give it a good thrasing.

[bwheatley]

This is a symbolic victory but a victory non the less.

[jjdenver]

I saw that you had 36 (??) cargoships in Delhi? Honestly dude that is way out of control. Max of 4 there in my opinion. Spend some of those PP on combat units. A few subs to scout around and hit sea supply lines, and some balanced fleets - not lots of cargoships.

[seille]

Yep, that 40 cargoship thing is old AI style, but i think Vic fixed this [:D]

[seille]

One wish:
 
Can´t you post some overview maps from time to time ?
I have no idea what the situation in the west is.
What is the west doing actually ?
 
Strategic air attacks on Germany are impossible ?

[bwheatley]

No i built the cargo ships becuase i had to get supplies from the DEI to british somehow with that many i could move 3000 a turn.

I will post another strat screenshot again i'm devoting everythign to spain right now i dont have supplies to keep spain and uk up and i need spain.