Barges for Beginners

[Didz]

Ok! I did read the manual Honest .

But can someone with a degree in logistical support please explain how to use them effectively. (It was so much easier in PACWAR.)

So far I have grasped:

1. You can only have two barge hubs.
2. Barge hubs act as distribution points for supplies. Hence they need to have lots of supplies there to distribute.
3. Provided you get the TF set up right the TF should go back and forth continously between the barge hub and its destination.
4. PT boats somehow get mixed up in the process somewhere.
5. It seems like something I ought to have working.
   [/list=a]
   
   What I haven't been able to grasp:
   
   1. Where do barges come from (do they just arrive or do I have to make them)?
   2. Can only barges use a barge hub?
   3. Can I assign escorts to a TF of barges?
   4. When is it sensible to use them? or put another way what don't I understand thats going to screw the whole thing up.
   5. Why is Port Moresby a Barge Hub and should it be?
   6. What is the relationship between Barge Hubs and HQ's?
      [/list=a]
      
      I think thats it to start. Got really puzzled about the construction of PT boats from cargo vessels but I think thats a red herring.
      
      A worked example would be nice.
      
      Thanks:)

[von Murrin]

Originally posted by Didz
...What I haven't been able to grasp:

1. Where do barges come from (do they just arrive or do I have to make them)?
2. Can only barges use a barge hub?
3. Can I assign escorts to a TF of barges?
4. When is it sensible to use them? or put another way what don't I understand thats going to screw the whole thing up.
5. Why is Port Moresby a Barge Hub and should it be?
6. What is the relationship between Barge Hubs and HQ's?
   [/list=a]
   
   I think thats it to start. Got really puzzled about the construction of PT boats from cargo vessels but I think thats a red herring.
   
   A worked example would be nice.
   
   Thanks:)

a) The manual has one sentence that states that the availability of both barges and PT's is listed on the bottom of the ship availibility screen. You can only build them as they become available. Ships I know to be barges: LCM, LCI, LCVP.

b) Yes, that is my understanding.

c) Don't know. I'm going to try this. PG's and SC's would be ideal.

d) They make good routine convoys for 3-6 hex hops. What's great is that you then just deliver supplies to the hub.

e) No reason I know of. You can't even build them for a long while.

f) Not a clue.

[Supervisor]

Originally posted by Didz
What I haven't been able to grasp:

1. Where do barges come from (do they just arrive or do I have to make them)?
2. . . .
3. . . .
4. When is it sensible to use them? or put another way what don't I understand thats going to screw the whole thing up.
5. . . .
6. . . .
   [/list=a]
   I think thats it to start. Got really puzzled about the construction of PT boats from cargo vessels but I think thats a red herring.

a) You have a certain amount that you can assemble. As time goes by, you will get more that you can assemble. The first time I did it, I got 15 AG's in a TF. Still had one available to assemble, so I did it again and got a 1 AG TF. Several days later, I was able to build 4 more. PT boats become available in the same way (and are built/assembled the same way). All you need is a cargo ship loaded with supplies at a port. (btw, I was the Japanese when I did this. Apparently the Allies get LCI, etc. rather than AG's.)

d) I move them to the hub (or create them there and put them on computer control. I'm not sure whether it is better to keep them in large barge TF's or to put in in a series of smaller ones. The ones I have in Rabaul have already started supplying the troops at Buka. The benefit of them are that they are additional cargo capacity available for supplying your bases. They're cheap and labor intensive to blow up . Every hull counts (especially for the Japanese), and it frees up the larger, faster hulls from routine supplying of some bases. (btw, if you create them in Truk as I did the first time, the fastest way to get them where they are useful is to load them with fuel and send them to Kavieng. By the time they reach Kavieng, they are empty of cargo, but at least they don't slow to a crawl. Live and learn.)

[worr]

Originally posted by Didz
Ok! I did read the manual Honest .

1. Where do barges come from (do they just arrive or do I have to make them)

Yea, I had to read the manual a second time. Its in there!

Gotta wait for the ship availability.

Worr, out

[Didz]

Ok! been doing a bit of experimentation and I seem to have it working.

(Mind you I thought that about minelaying for the first month of gameplay).

I have now established Noumea and Brisbane as Barge Hubs (just because they seemed like the obvious places to have them)

So far it appears that its as simple as forming a Transport TF at a barge hub setting it to Computer Control and giving it a destination.

The computer seems quite happy with any combination of cargo vessel and escort. I have DD's, MSW's, APD's, AK's, SC's and PG's in some of my convoys. I even have MSW's following the TF's back and forth to keep the sea lane clear.

Once correctly set up the destination text in the TF data box shows CS:<destination name> meaning Continuous Supply. The TF then proceeeds to go back and forth filling up with supplies at the barge hub and dropping them at the destination. I even have one lonely AK going back and forth dropping supplies on a beach for an AV.

Still havent worked out where barges come from though. Do the USN actually get them or is it just the japs?

[rhohltjr]

I Know which screen to look at to see if any
barges are available to make, but if a person were starting as Allies on May 1st 42', just when would the barges become available? Is this a random event in the UV software? Is there some sort of date range I can look forward to? Anyone??

Thanks,

[Didz]

Originally posted by rhohltjr
I Know which screen to look at to see if any
barges are available to make, but if a person were starting as Allies on May 1st 42', just when would the barges become available? Is this a random event in the UV software? Is there some sort of date range I can look forward to? Anyone??

Thanks,

I've never actually had any yet playing Allies so I wonder if they are an IJN option only. I've certainly sunk quite a few.

[zed]

Kawaguchi, the 35th brigade commander, had used barges extensively in conquest of dutch East Indies, and thought they would be a good idea in retaking Guadalcanal. What he did not realize is that w/o air cover /control they were highly vulnerable and impractical in moving supplies and troops. Although, of all the Japanese commanders on guadalcanal, he came within an ace of taking Henderson field in September. If one battalion had not become lost he would have made it.

[daniel123]

this question is not about creating barages, but destroying them. what are the best methods to use?? I tried b-26 at 100 ft, but the losses for them was to great. any suggestions???

[Didz]

Originally posted by daniel123
this question is not about creating barages, but destroying them. what are the best methods to use?? I tried b-26 at 100 ft, but the losses for them was to great. any suggestions???

I think 100ft is a bit too low.

I set my bombers on 1000' and seem to get good results with P-39's P-40's and B26's.

I tried setting my FB's to 100' but all they did then were straffing runs which weren't very effective.

[Drex]

I find that Subs take out barges with their deck guns and sometimes use their torpedoes. I'll station a wolfpack in the slot and watch them take out the barges as they come down. However I find that PT boats aren't effective at all. I've had a squadron of 4 PTs intercept 15 barges but didn't fire a shot.

[Didz]

Originally posted by Drex
I find that Subs take out barges with their deck guns and sometimes use their torpedoes. I'll station a wolfpack in the slot and watch them take out the barges as they come down. However I find that PT boats aren't effective at all. I've had a squadron of 4 PTs intercept 15 barges but didn't fire a shot.

Oh! Wow you managed to get some PT boats.

I was trying to work out how to do that last night but couldn't seem to make it happen.

Is there any trick to building them?

[elmo3]

Originally posted by Didz
...snip...
Still havent worked out where barges come from though. Do the USN actually get them or is it just the japs?

See section 9.20 in the fine manual to find out where barges come from. They are available for either side.

[Didz]

Originally posted by elmo3


See section 9.20 in the fine manual to find out where barges come from. They are available for either side.

Yeh! Read that but so far in #17 Allies I have never had the option to make them so I began to wonder if they were IJN only options.

Perhaps later in the scenario.

[elmo3]

Didz

OK, I don't see any barges or PT boats available for the Allies at the start of #17 either. Perhaps someone who has played it further can post the answer on when they can be built. Seems like this type of info should be available somewhere in the game. Maybe it is and we just don't know where to look.

Also, IMO Brisbane and Nouema are not optimal Barge Hubs. IIRC barges have a limited range so you want your hubs to be more forward to help automatically supply the new bases you're building. Anyone with more experience have any thoughts on this?

elmo3

[Didz]

Originally posted by elmo3
Didz

Also, IMO Brisbane and Nouema are not optimal Barge Hubs. IIRC barges have a limited range so you want your hubs to be more forward to help automatically supply the new bases you're building. Anyone with more experience have any thoughts on this?

elmo3

Good Point. Although TBH I haven't quite grasped what the significance of a barge hub is. (probably because I don't have any barges:D ).

I thought at one point that a barge hub was some sort of major distribution point where all supplies were accumulated from onward dispatch but having changed mine back and forth a few times it doesn't seem to make any difference to anything.

[elmo3]

Didz

You can set up Continuous Supply TF's with a Barge Hub as their home base. See section 9.11 in the manual. Barge TF's of this type will move up to 12 hexes if the destination base has fuel (6 hexes if it doesn't) which is why I suggested making a Barge Hub near the "front".

elmo3

[von Murrin]

Guys, a few answers:

US barges are LCI's, LST's, LSD's, etc. They start showing up about Feb. '43.

PT's don't show up in any real numbers until late '42. The procedure for creating PT's is the same as for barges.

[Didz]

Originally posted by elmo3
Didz

You can set up Continuous Supply TF's with a Barge Hub as their home base. See section 9.11 in the manual. Barge TF's of this type will move up to 12 hexes if the destination base has fuel (6 hexes if it doesn't) which is why I suggested making a Barge Hub near the "front".

elmo3

How does this differ from the existing 'Routine Convoy' mechanism. I can set those up to run from anywhere to anywhere so why the special deal about barges?

[LargeSlowTarget]

I was going to ask the same question. You can use barge TFs from any base, either under human control, cs or computer control just like an ordinary transport TF. So what is the deal with those barge hubs?

For elmo3 and others: How are barges/PTs created?
You can create them via the 'create barge' respectively 'create PT' button on the TF screen, but only from transport TFs loaded with supplies at Truk or Noumea (perhaps Brisbane, too), i.e. if you load the TF at Rabaul the 'create' button will not be activated. There must be barges/PTs available in the 'ship availability' screen (see intel summary). Since the endurance of barges/PTs is low, you better create the barge/PT-TF when you are close to the intended barge hub (usually close to the front).

AFAIK, the Japanese can only create barges and the USN can only create PTs. There are Allied barge hubs, but the allied barges are actually the LCI and LCVP types that arrive as reinforcements just like any other ordinary ship. I don't think LSTs and LSDs qualify as barges, they are oceangoing ships.

Hope this helps.

LST