Sub-hunting again

[LargeSlowTarget]

You all know about the Japanese subs hanging around Noumea being more or less invulnerable to ASW aircraft and having fun sinking the inexperienced SCs sent out to get them. There have been several suggestions to improve the ASW for the Allies, like shakedown-cruises for SCs, using experienced DDs etc.
I had no luck with this so far. I have created two surface TF with three DDs each, all carefully selected for their DC loads and nighttime experience (all above 50), and sent both TFs to a fresh spotting of an IJN sub near Noumea with orders to patrol and react, hoping they would be mutually supporting each other and get this annoying iron coffin.

Well, the score at the end of the day: two DDs sunk, not a single DC dropped in return, not even the 'escorts hunting' message. WTF???

I don't expect that a IJN sub is dead meat each time the USN shows up, but I would expect some kind of response by the surviving DDs if one of their fellow tin cans is hit. And this is not the first time one of my DDs on sub-hunt being torpedoed with zero reaction of the other ships in the TF (not to speak of the SCs - sub chow). Furthermore, my hunter-killer groups do not seem to hunt at all, i.e. triggering the action against subs.

Was the USN really that bad in ASW in 42? I know IJN subs hit Sara several times, North Dakota, Wasp, Juneau, Yorktown (and Hamman alongside) etc., but how many instances are there of DDs in hunter-killer groups being sunk by their prey? Even slow-moving (ASDIC only works up to ~14 knots) DDs were hard to hit due to their shallow draft.

Has someone discovered a strategy against subs that actually works?

A frustrated and clueless LST

[daft]

I had a IJN sub attack my ASW TF consisting of 3DD's and 4SC's ON THE SURFACE!! He got away without a scratch.

[Sonny]

Your subs will do the same to the enemy ships.

[Erik Rutins]

That's certainly some bad luck. Yes, subs can be dangerous but I would have had confidence in the ASW group you described. I have to assume you were facing an excellent sub skipper and crew who made all their "rolls" while your DDs missed theirs.

We haven't ruled out future tweaks to ASW, but they were not a priority for the first patch.

Regards,

- Erik

[Echo]

I've foregone all my submarine mining missions (except for the Argonaut), and gone offensive with them. I'm making the IJN miserable, and to date [late 42] I've only lost 4 subs. They are hitting my subs [rarely], so its just a matter of time before hitting theirs.

I hit one a couple times with a DD escort, but he got away.

I'd be interested to know why dive bombers or fighters will not attack sighted subs. We smashed the German U-boats with these tactics in the Atlantic.

[tjfox1]

What I've done to combat Jap subs:

1) Train the SC and PG for 30-40 days by sending them out on pleasure cruises away from Jap subs.

2) Form a TF out of 5-6 DD's (make sure they have Depth Charges), 3 PG's and 6 SC's and go hunting for subs. This is done after #1 above.

3) Mine hexes where you see jap subs

4) Have 2-3 LBA on ASW at 1000 feet at a port where subs are hanging around.

The TF should start to attack the subs after losing a couple SC's, also it seems the subs miss more shots with that many ships in the TF or as the ships gain experience.

I've had some success with doing the above with reports of 3-4 subs hitting mines and the TF depth charging (and hitting) 2 or 3 more.

One of the things I've found strange ( amoung other things) is that both US and Jap subs like to attack SC's and PG's on the surface. Not sure this really happen much in reality.

[kaleun]

:rolleyes:
I sunk one of the subs lying off Noumea with 4 subchaser and a depth charge equipped DD. I previously had the SCs do 2 shakedown cruises around the area.
When my airplanes reported 2 subs in the area, (I think one of this subs put a torp in Lexington coming back from Lunga), I set up a SC TF with the SCs and the DD. The sub attacked one of the SCs, missed and got hit by mousetrap twice and finished off with depth charges.
The second sub dissapeared for a while, and I believe it has reapeared S of Noumea. Unfortunately most of my SCs are off somewhere else, so I can only send 2SCs and a DD to hunt him down now.
K

[sitkis]

As the Japs I have had a very easy time sinking subs. Set up ASW TFs with 2 DD and 2-3 PC and send them to contact locations with patrol orders. In the first 3 months of the campaign 4 subs are confirmed sunk with a few more likely badly damaged. Even have a PC that will actually drop charges now.

Also, setting the float planes on the AV and CS ships to ASW (these planes use bombs not torps, so they can actually hit something) works very well. Planes from one CS have one confirmed kill and I got two other ###hit### messages.

So in 3 months of ASW the Japs have devistated the Allied sub fleet. This is on "very hard" so the AI could even be getting a bonus to their effectiveness. If anything is is ever done with ASW it should be made *less* effective, not more.

[juliet7bravo]

Generally speaking, the IJN ASW ships start with roughly a 5+ point day/10+ point night experience advantage over the Allied ships. In particular their night experience levels are generally at or past the minimum level to be effective for ASW work from the beginning. In UV it's really the crew experience that kill subs with depth charge attacks, the actual ASW weapons appear to play little part, and the ASW platform almost none other than when it turns into a surface action. A sub has a MUCH higher durability rating than a patrol boat/sub chaser (1-2 vs. 20-28), and is much much better armed. Really, subs should get a "can't submerge due to damage" penalty past a certain level of damage.

[Erik Rutins]

Actually, have a look at the depth charges on the Japanese APDs. I've found them quite effective as ASW platforms.

Regards,

- Erik