How did you get started in wargaming?

[Ketza]

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff

How did you guys get started?

As a young teenager, mid 1970's, I was into reading WW2 books and building models - or trying to. I dabbled in making my own wargames, using maps of the world I drew myself on large 2'x3' poster stock. That never worked out too well, since the throw-one-die, win-or-lose thing didn't grab me. But that's all I had and it was fun drawing the maps, which I really got good at. Sometimes I'd even throw in a fictional continent, usually Atlantis.

I also played Stratego at that time which was moderately interesting. I once even made a custom Stratego map, using yet another sheet or two of large poster stock, complete with oceans and special ship units that could do battle, like the real Stratego pieces, as well as transport the Stratego pieces. The ship units were just pieces of paper, with one end folded up in an L-shape, which had the unit information on it so only the owning player could see it.
Basically, Stratego on steroids.

One day in 1977, or thereabouts, I went to Queens Center Mall (it's still there, in Queens, New York). I went into a bookstore, it might have been Brentanos, and saw a couple of interesting boxes on one of the shelves - they were wargames. Up until that point in time, I never even knew these things existed, which is odd in hindsight, since I'd been to model airplane stores before.

Anyhoo, one particular game on the Brentanos shelf really caught my attention. It looked very interresting because it covered the part of WW2 that interested me the most. I didn't have much money and was a bit leery about spending it on something I knew nothing about. But the game was enticing enough for me to buy it. I think it cost around $12.

I remember at first being a bit disappointed upon opening the box at home and seeing the cheap cardboard cutouts that were the units.
The map however was nice and I started reading the well-written, concise rules manual. Actually, I ended up reading the rules 3-4 times because there seemed to be something missing. The rules kept referring to two sizes of units, Corps and Armies, yet I could not find anyplace in the manual which showed how these sizes were denoted on the units themselves. Try as I might, the information just wasn't there.

For this reason, the game went into the closet and remained unplayed for several months. I must have considered sending a short question to Avalon Hill regarding this issue, but for some reason I just didn't.

The issue kept nagging at me and I would from time to time take another glance at the rulebook to see if I had missed anything - but no luck. It's not like it was a large rulebook, as it was only a little more than four pages. At one point I even reread the entire rulebook once or twice yet again.

The game thus lingered in the closet for about two years until one day I tried once again to see what I may have missed.

And there was the info, right near the start on the first page!

To this day, I don't know why my eyes refused to see this information nearly a dozen times prior to that point.
The good thing about what had happened was that by that time I knew the rules by heart. I went on to play many a game for several years after that, all solitaire of course. [;)]
One particular stroke of luck for me was that this particular game, my first real wargame, turned out to be one of the best board wargames ever made, to date. So it was a very good introduction to the hobby, despite my intial "eye" problem with the rules. Sheesh!

Oh, and the name of the game? This one, of course, in case you haven't guessed yet:

I started with D-Day but my greatest love of Avalon Hill Was Russian Campaign. Fond memories of my turn one armor counterattack vrs AGS taking out a couple of 7-6 German armored corps (I believe that was the stats) against some guy in the wargame club at my HS. Whenever I got that pretty 10-8 SS panzer corps with the white on Black lettering I was in heaven.

[z1812]

Hi All,

I played "Toy Soldiers" all the time when I was a youngster. So moving to wargames was a slightly more acceptable way for an aspiring adult to play "Toy Soldiers".

Like many I went through the Boardgames phase but was frustrated by a lack of opponents and the ever rampaging cat. I tried the solitaire approach but did not find it very satisfying. For a long time I built models and read books to satisfy my military interest.

Computers came along and eventually I noticed Steel Panthers in the stores. That was that. Digital "Toy Soldiers". I remember my complete delight upon installing Steel Panthers.

regards John

[Perturabo]

When I was a kid, I had some wargames on some of my C-64 cassettes. I remember playing Guadalcanal (an RT wargame), some wargame about Adennes, a wargame about Roman ships. A lot of them.

[BoredStiff]

I started with D-Day but my greatest love of Avalon Hill Was Russian Campaign. Fond memories of my turn one armor counterattack vrs AGS taking out a couple of 7-6 German armored corps (I believe that was the stats) against some guy in the wargame club at my HS. Whenever I got that pretty 10-8 SS panzer corps with the white on Black lettering I was in heaven.

Agreed, I've played D-Day and it can't hold a candle to TRC.

The movement factors for the German armored corps were 7, so those were either 6-7's, 7-7's or 8-7's - but no need to get too geeky over this. [:)]

I've been there, done that too. One or two lucky 1:2 attacks against those and the German player is in a serious hurt.
About 95% of my experience with TRC is solitaire, but I remember some good games.

Once, my Soviets were so successful that at the start of 1942 the German side had but only one or two armored corps left. As I remember, it started with me having the Germans make some chancy armored attacks in 1941, which they lost, and then trying to make up for lost ground with more risky attacks, most or all of which were lost as well. Still, even with those huge losses, it would still have taken the Soviets well into 1944 before getting to Berlin.

My quickest German win, otoh, came in a game where I used the optional airborne units. Stalin was holed up in Gorki and a final attack on that city in the Sept/Oct 1943 (clear weather) turn, the last turn in which those airborne units could be used, was successful. I remember I used everything in that attack - the usual assortment of ground units, which undoubtedly included plenty of armor, plus the airborne drop right on top of the city, plus the final Stuka unit.

About half of all my games anded in draws (with the wins being evenly distributed between the two sides).
I remember one tie in particular, in which both sides had virtually their entire armies facing one another in a huge front line that stretched from in front of Leningrad, down to in front of Moscow, following the Donets River down past Voronezh, over to Stalingrad and finally down to Astrakhan to the Caspian. This would have been toward the end of 1943, early 1944. The Germans had the Causasus, but both sides still had their entire armies present and accounted for, with the probable exception of a couple of Soviet surrendered units, but not many. Very interesting game, as I recall. The German side was able to advance steadily, without ever being able to really make a knock-out blow.



It wasn't until years later when I finally played against some opponents that I became aware of the flawed city-supply rule for the Germans which, in the hands of an experienced German player, could be a game breaker.

[Greybriar]

I had forgotten about playing with "Toy Soldiers" until you mentioned it, z1812. It sounds like you and I evolved in a similar manner. After the "Toy Soldiers" phase came boardgames. Later I, too, played Steel Panthers, but prior to that was MicroProse's M1 Tank Platoon, QQP's The Perfect General, and numerous other titles. Naval games included Three-Sixty Pacific's Harpoon, RAW Entertainment's Action Stations, MicroProse's Task Force 1942, and--like pasternakski--SSG's Carriers at War as well as other titles.

There has been a steady flow of new PC games that have kept me occupied since those earlier days.

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: sabre1

3. Bismarck (cassette)

Man, that brings back memories.

[Perturabo]

Bismarck?
The one with piloting minigames?

[V22 Osprey]

When I first played SPWAW a log time ago.

[andym]

Was AH's Russian Campaign a twin phased movement game like Anzio?I never really took to those.

[BoredStiff]

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

There has been a steady flow of new PC games that have kept me occupied since those earlier days.

Agreed. Since getting my first computer, a C-64 in 1985, I've played computer wargames almost exclusively.

My first was Silent Service, closely followed by SSI's Carrier Force. I always liked the SSI titles - and in particular the Grigsby ones - better than the SSG games, for some reason.
I liked the micromanagement of the Grigsby titles, as opposed to the more vague handling of units in the SSG games.
In Carrier Force, one was able to launch precisely the number of planes one wished, whereas in Carriers At War, one had to launch entire groups. Or something along those lines.
It always seemed that with the SSG titles, the computer was doing most of the playing, while the player was only there for an occassional input and to hope for the best.
I dunno, hard to put my finger on it.

[BoredStiff]

ORIGINAL: andym

Was AH's Russian Campaign a twin phased movement game like Anzio?I never really took to those.

Yes, although I've never played Anzio.

[sullafelix]

" 4. The name I forget but you played on the board and input your moves into the computer.  It was a WWII German vs. Russian based game, and I believe it was done by SSI "
 
I think the company was SimCanada. Not sure of the name, but I know the company released mostly a combo of board/computer games.
 
For me Tactics II and then Gettysburg, who knows what edition, what are they up to now 25 or so. I remember telling the wife that if I bought a computer and two or three games with a lot of scenarios I'd never have to buy another wargame.

[BoredStiff]

ORIGINAL: sabre1

4. The name I forget but you played on the board and input your moves into the computer.  It was a WWII German vs. Russian based game, and I believe it was done by SSI.
5. Cassette game that simulated a B1 during the cold war era (again the name I forget).

The first was Tanktics, the second B-1 Nuclear Bomber, both by AH.

Tanktics was one of the early computer wargame titles that first made me think seriously about getting a computer, although I subsequently never bought that game.

[RedArgo]

Stratego, Risk and Star Fleet Battles plus some AH hill game about the battle of the North Atlantic in WWII, I don't remember the name, for board games. Then, Midway and a nuclear war game by AH on the TRS-80 and then a lot of SSI games after that for the Apple II.

I remember going into Kay-Bee toys when I was a kid and looking at war games there. I bought Third Reich, but could never really get into playing it. I doubt Toys-R-Us carries that stuff anymore.

Bill

[KG Erwin]

A long, long time ago...I think I saw an Avalon Hill ad in a comic book in the mid-60s. I talked my parents into buying me a copy of "Stalingrad" (1963 edition). I've been twisted ever since.

[IronWarrior]

Napoleonic, and to a lesser degree ACW, 15mm miniature wargaming. I was introduced to it by my best friend back in the late 80's-early 90's and we tried ruleset after ruleset. In each one we found things we liked and disliked. Would spend countless cross-eyed hours with charts and dice and migraines. Then we came across Carnage & Glory II. Best game ever made! Even played a game at Historicon in Pennsylvania with the author.

Now THAT would be the ultimate... if someone could get Nigel from Carnage & Glory to help make a strategic-tactical pc game.

[JeanUSARMYGUARD]

Early in my childhood I picked up - PTO (Pacific Theater of Operations by Koei). It was a great and amazing game. Offered a entire different way to play a game on the NES system.

But the Reason I picked it up was because I have always been a Proud American (Thanks to The Founding Fathers)... and the chance to shoot down Japanese Zeros and blow up carriers... was too much to pass up.

But the game that really fulfilled my hopes and dreams was... Liberty or Death, by Koei. This game really amazed me as Im a Patriotic American. I spent many years playing the title... and hoping for a sequel.

To this day I am waiting for a sequel to Liberty or Death. I hoping that Creative Assembly's approach to Empire Total War will bring Liberty or Death to todays graphical and gameplay abilities.

[LargeSlowTarget]

I started with the C64 and 'Shoot'them up'-games like 1942 and Blue Max, then moved to more serious Sims like Silent Service, Destroyer and Steel Thunder and then to strategy/tactics games like Kampfgruppe, Crusade in Europe and Guadalcanal.    [/align]

[Zap]

ORIGINAL: RedArgo


I remember going into Kay-Bee toys when I was a kid and looking at war games there. I bought Third Reich, but could never really get into playing it. I doubt Toys-R-Us carries that stuff anymore.

Bill

Somewhere along the way(the Vietnam war protest), Wargame became a bad, bad. So, games started disappearing off the shelves. They used to be easily accesible in your neighborhood toy stores. Players of wargames were entered into the ranks of the sub culture.
I remember sensing shame and feeling different because I sought out these types of games. My mother was one of those proponets telling me how bad it was to like to play wargames. As I browsed at stores,I'd look over my shoulder "to see who was watching me" That mindset I spoke earlier really did damage to the wargame market back then. Of course it did not help that my friends had no interest in playing wargames.

[BoredStiff]

But the Reason I picked it up was because I have always been a Proud American (Thanks to The Founding Fathers)...

This game really amazed me as Im a Patriotic American.

Somewhere along the way(the Vietnam war protest), Wargame became a bad, bad.

As I browsed at stores,I'd look over my shoulder "to see who was watching me" That mindset I spoke earlier really did damage to the wargame market back then.