Low-visibility combat
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
Low-visibility combat
Darkness, sandstorm, fog, trees, buildings, whatever blocks your vision, i'd like to know some tactics for low-visibility (/short-range) combat and unit purchasing advices too
Recon, recon, and more recon!
Advance slowly, with patrols or snipers up front, infantry squads and armor behind.
Use rolling barrages as close to your advancing units as safety allow (the British called this "leaning into the barrage").
There have been several threads posted on jungle warfare that have lots of good tactics. Try the search function.
Advance slowly, with patrols or snipers up front, infantry squads and armor behind.
Use rolling barrages as close to your advancing units as safety allow (the British called this "leaning into the barrage").
There have been several threads posted on jungle warfare that have lots of good tactics. Try the search function.
"The problem with the future is that it keeps turning into the present" -Hobbes
I am too lazy to search...
So smaller squads are harder to see?
And advancing slowly means i use only half of my movement points or what?
Are tanks useless in >200 yard combat? Should i buy them at all?
And advancing slowly means i use only half of my movement points or what?
Are tanks useless in >200 yard combat? Should i buy them at all?
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Capt. Pixel
- Posts: 1178
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Tucson, AZ
Re: I am too lazy to search...
Smaller units (scouts, snipers) ARE harder to spot, but the idea is to spot him first.Originally posted by jarnoid
So smaller squads are harder to see?
And advancing slowly means i use only half of my movement points or what?
Are tanks useless in >200 yard combat? Should i buy them at all?
I like to keep multiple units stacked in a hex in low visibility. In this way, an enemy that stumbles upon you has to deal with maybe a couple of tanks AND infantry in a very small area. A typical hex might contain a tank, a HT and some infantry. Adjacent hexes may only contain a couple of infantry units each.
Spreading your units out over 2-3 hexes (as you might out in the open with long visibility and artillery threats) will only allow your opponent to deal with your individual units in a piecemeal fashion.
Go forward slowly and only after your recon has cleared through an area. Unless you are very, very sure of the battle situation, don't agressively follow retreating units further than your frontline. Your opponent might just be leading you into an ambush. Try not to move tanks forward without infantry support (either riders or attendant Halftracks)
Imagine your scouts, linked arm-to-arm treading through a cornfield looking for an escaped convict. And coming upon a Tiger tank
Right behind them, in tight groups bristling with firepower, are the fighting arm of you forces. The scouts locate the enemy, armored units with infantry support move up to deal with the threat. and darkness descends once again. :p
I hope this rambling reply helps
"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson
- Stonewall Jackson
Are tanks useless in >200 yard combat?
Tanks are very useful in close quarters, just make sure they have infantry escorts. SP AA is excellent for sweeping soft targets and Big (+100 mm) SP Inf guns will affect units in adjacent hexes (great for suppressing unseen units, but careful that you don't "splash" your own units. Flame tanks with 2 hex range will kill anything they meet.
"The problem with the future is that it keeps turning into the present" -Hobbes
Good thread
"The problem with the future is that it keeps turning into the present" -Hobbes
Buy lotsa light/flame tanks when playing against japanese/italians, lotsa tank-killers when playing vs germans/russians. buy lotsa heavy arty/rockets PERIOD.
Mech your inf in half-tracks/tracked vehicles. 'Inf' your tanks (mount scouts/snipers/MG/AT/normal troops). buy lotsa flame thrower engineers/assault troops PERIOD, they are the best troops at range 1. The AFV allow you to shift inf where needed, like caves/fortifications, and shelter your infantry from arty.
1) heavy barrage your advance/threat axis with the big tubes
2) if you get a good round drop pattern, move into it with your tanks in paths with no more than 2 hexes between so you 'bump' enemy units. as you move, CAREFULLY watch to see if the asterisk appears after the Ready*. This means you are observed by an enemy unit. Dismount sniper/scouts frequently and rt-click/spin to see if you can spot the unit(s) which see's you. Repeat until you have located the enemy 'line of resistance' with-in the arty drop pattern. DO NOT use this tactic outside the arty drop zone, it is suicidal.
3) after finding an enemy unit, hover the cursor to check if it is routed or retreating. If so, ALT-O overrun it with tracks/tanks to destroy it. use remaining shots or mounted troops to finish it off as reqd, or move another unit into the hex, etc. I dont use flame tanks to over-run, i use them to wipe out mulitple units in one hex or units NOT totally stunned.
4) 60 or 81mm target any units discovered which have not been eliminated, starting with those posing the most threat.
next turn, repeat. you should be able to advance about 4-6 hexes per turn.
Mech your inf in half-tracks/tracked vehicles. 'Inf' your tanks (mount scouts/snipers/MG/AT/normal troops). buy lotsa flame thrower engineers/assault troops PERIOD, they are the best troops at range 1. The AFV allow you to shift inf where needed, like caves/fortifications, and shelter your infantry from arty.
1) heavy barrage your advance/threat axis with the big tubes
2) if you get a good round drop pattern, move into it with your tanks in paths with no more than 2 hexes between so you 'bump' enemy units. as you move, CAREFULLY watch to see if the asterisk appears after the Ready*. This means you are observed by an enemy unit. Dismount sniper/scouts frequently and rt-click/spin to see if you can spot the unit(s) which see's you. Repeat until you have located the enemy 'line of resistance' with-in the arty drop pattern. DO NOT use this tactic outside the arty drop zone, it is suicidal.
3) after finding an enemy unit, hover the cursor to check if it is routed or retreating. If so, ALT-O overrun it with tracks/tanks to destroy it. use remaining shots or mounted troops to finish it off as reqd, or move another unit into the hex, etc. I dont use flame tanks to over-run, i use them to wipe out mulitple units in one hex or units NOT totally stunned.
4) 60 or 81mm target any units discovered which have not been eliminated, starting with those posing the most threat.
next turn, repeat. you should be able to advance about 4-6 hexes per turn.
Fire = good
Yeah i noticed flame tanks and engineers are real killers in jungle. One shot with flamethrower -> *wooosshhh* 5+ men killed. also works against bunkers
If you are playing a fairly large and long scenario, buy plenty of artillery, especially SP Rockets... then have the arty raining down in a fairly concentrated corridor to one set of victory hexes, and then move your tanks in... any units in the corridor should be either dead or too suppressed to do anyting. Any units outside the corridor shouldn't be able to see your units because there's so much smoke around.
This tactic works in any visibility... but isn't exactly historically accurate, as it is very heavily leaned towards a few unit... lots of SP Rockets, lots of tanks, lots of mortars and a few engineers are ALL that you buy...
Feel free to criticise my strategy....
Antarctic
This tactic works in any visibility... but isn't exactly historically accurate, as it is very heavily leaned towards a few unit... lots of SP Rockets, lots of tanks, lots of mortars and a few engineers are ALL that you buy...
Feel free to criticise my strategy....
Antarctic
"Quantity has a quality of its own"
-Stalin
-Stalin
Don't forget the other side of the coin, so to speak. As the defender in this situation, you want to put out your opponent's eyes. That is, any time you spot his recon units try to kill them. Without recon, those tanks of his will be too afraid to approach for fear of a close assault by your infantry/AT troops.
Also, don't assume that limited visibility (e.g. 5 to 7) can't be improved upon. Use smoke to take visibility down to one hex to make the attacker stumble upon your engineers and MGs at one hex range and without that overwatch support of the tanks he has behind him.
Keep HTs back a few hexes and then have them dash up to finish off any units in LOS on your turn, then move them back from the front so they are unseen on your opponent's turn.
Use your own recon to get into his backfield so you can see where he is massing for an attack. Be patient and move only one or two hexes per turn.
I think a weaker force with better intel can defeat a stronger force.
Also, don't assume that limited visibility (e.g. 5 to 7) can't be improved upon. Use smoke to take visibility down to one hex to make the attacker stumble upon your engineers and MGs at one hex range and without that overwatch support of the tanks he has behind him.
Keep HTs back a few hexes and then have them dash up to finish off any units in LOS on your turn, then move them back from the front so they are unseen on your opponent's turn.
Use your own recon to get into his backfield so you can see where he is massing for an attack. Be patient and move only one or two hexes per turn.
I think a weaker force with better intel can defeat a stronger force.
Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom
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Gary Tatro
- Posts: 1200
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:00 am
- Location: MA, US
Though I feel that some of your advice is sound.
I think you are giving advice on how to deal with a computer opponent. If you are fighting a human opponent in the jungle it is a much different thing. I am currently fighting M4 in an assualt. USMC versus Japan. Heavy Jungle map, with rivers and swamp.
First Recon is important, but remember mines. Recon infantry will very seldom set them off and very seldomly locate them when they move over them. Expecially if you are using your recon infantry wisely and moving them one hex at a time. There for it is important to follow recon with either engineers or mine tanks.
Keep a reserve of half tracks and flame tanks behind them. Keep your infantry in the half tracks. This is important because a human player will hit you with heavy artillary as soon as he locates your position. Infantry in Half tracks will not be suppressed when you unload them on your turn. The flame tanks can remove the mines in a turn. Do a direct fire into the hex. Repeat until mines are gone.
A good opponent will have a layered defense. Not just a strong single line like the computer. This makes it important to keep your units together but it also puts them in dangerous to air and artillary.
Most human opponents will limit the amount of artillary you have. 10-15%, most will not allow rockets and they will counter battery fire and special ops and look for smoke residue.
Limits on artillary is ok, counter batter fire can't be avoided. Special ops. Ways to deal with this is to have units and recon in your back areas. This is very important. If you leave your back areas totally neglected you will end up loosing very important units to special ops. You could loose all your reinforcements and you might loose your artillary.
Your artillary barrages will leave smoke residue. The way to deal with this is to shot and scott, or to cofuse your enemy by having small units like recon or motor cycles lay down smoke on turn one. Another trick is to have two groups of artillary fire one group move the other group. Fire other group move first group.
Concentrating on one corridor does work against the computer but is a very dangerous tactic against a human opponent. First your opponent will just barage the coridor turn after turn. Second they do not care if you have only one set of victory hexes. Third they will relocate and reenforce units to that area.
Remember mines will take you most wonderful Panther G and turn it into a pile of rubble. Turn your halftracks into slag. I tend to be much more conservative in the tank and half track area, when playing in low visibility. I find having a strong mobil reserve works the best.
Now I agree with what most everyone before has posted but I feel that most of the tactics suggested only work against a computer opponent.
First Recon is important, but remember mines. Recon infantry will very seldom set them off and very seldomly locate them when they move over them. Expecially if you are using your recon infantry wisely and moving them one hex at a time. There for it is important to follow recon with either engineers or mine tanks.
Keep a reserve of half tracks and flame tanks behind them. Keep your infantry in the half tracks. This is important because a human player will hit you with heavy artillary as soon as he locates your position. Infantry in Half tracks will not be suppressed when you unload them on your turn. The flame tanks can remove the mines in a turn. Do a direct fire into the hex. Repeat until mines are gone.
A good opponent will have a layered defense. Not just a strong single line like the computer. This makes it important to keep your units together but it also puts them in dangerous to air and artillary.
Most human opponents will limit the amount of artillary you have. 10-15%, most will not allow rockets and they will counter battery fire and special ops and look for smoke residue.
Limits on artillary is ok, counter batter fire can't be avoided. Special ops. Ways to deal with this is to have units and recon in your back areas. This is very important. If you leave your back areas totally neglected you will end up loosing very important units to special ops. You could loose all your reinforcements and you might loose your artillary.
Your artillary barrages will leave smoke residue. The way to deal with this is to shot and scott, or to cofuse your enemy by having small units like recon or motor cycles lay down smoke on turn one. Another trick is to have two groups of artillary fire one group move the other group. Fire other group move first group.
Concentrating on one corridor does work against the computer but is a very dangerous tactic against a human opponent. First your opponent will just barage the coridor turn after turn. Second they do not care if you have only one set of victory hexes. Third they will relocate and reenforce units to that area.
Remember mines will take you most wonderful Panther G and turn it into a pile of rubble. Turn your halftracks into slag. I tend to be much more conservative in the tank and half track area, when playing in low visibility. I find having a strong mobil reserve works the best.
Now I agree with what most everyone before has posted but I feel that most of the tactics suggested only work against a computer opponent.
"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"