force mix for Barbarossa

[gwgardner]

What do you guys generally purchase in terms of a force pool for Barbarossa? How many armor, divisions/corps. Mechanized? Infantry? Air?

[cpdeyoung]

It depends on the date Barbarossa starts. If I am playing the Axis I tend to get into the big conflict as early as possible, so for the Germans I go with what I have. In building German units I try to build some big panzer korps, and lots of mech, korps if I can, divisions if I can not. I never build air unless I am very rich indeed. I build some garrison infantry, but will choose mech over foot if I can afford it.

For the Soviets, again it depends on the strategic situation. If the Axis is still struggling with France, well, I build big armor, to rush across and help. "Never happens" you say, well I just finished a game in which the Germans never took Brussels. The French had multiple Level 2 armored corps, and Italy never entered. Admittedly this was a variant in which the Americans sent "Lend-lease" of 30 PP, morphing to 55 PP to the French, and the British helped them also. I "reversed" this scenario and took France in August 1940, but it was still a fun campaign.

In more normal Soviet deployments : If the Axis is attacking Jugoslavia I try and build infantry corps to cover my borders, and mech and armor as I can afford it. I want some good defensive lines, and some fire-brigade Tank Corps to counterattack. I try and have pockets of mech and tank forces behind the lines to react. If I have enough units in place as Barbarossa starts I might not move industry east. I am not convinced of the value of air units for the USSR and rarely build them.

I would say that mech is my favorite build. Sure I would rather have armor, but my research schedule for armor is usually behind my artillery, and mech is cheaper. I build infantry for the Soviets because the need cheap front cover, but mech is a good buy.

Your question made me think, and gave me some nice ideas, thanks.

Chuck

PS : I thought you might enjoy a snap of the Grande Armée.

[gwgardner]

Interesting, thx for all the ideas.

A few questions:

1) Do you use F1 to alter PP pools (lend-lease), or are you using the convoy system?

2) In the screenshot, is that with a German AI, or are you playing both sides?

3) Is there any advantage for mech over infantry, other than movement?

[cpdeyoung]

In this game the Axis is the AI, and I shipped the PP from America to France by convoy.

I know of no other advantage than movement, but that is a huge advantage. We all can see the operational value of increased movement points, but the tactical value is equally important. The mech units can get to the battles with enough points to still attack, they can surround the foe much more often, they can move into an unoccupied city, and so much more. Operationally they can cover ground at a pace which makes a huge difference in this scale of game. A nice mix of armor and mech can cover ground at a big operational advantage, which can even make different strategies possible. Infantry soon gets left behind. At a certain stage in the game for the Soviets I would consider disbanding infantry and recovering the PP for Mechanized. There is a penalty, but what good is infantry back in the Ukraine when you are battling around Frankfort?

Have you noticed the AI really builds strategic movement points as the Axis? I love having them, and value them, but they are expensive, and I usually need the PP for combat units.

By the way I see from your question that you think I might play both sides in a turn. That is interesting, but it is not my method, rather, I save the game in progress every once in awhile, and then, later, return to that point and replay it with reversed sides. If anything I find I do not save often enough, and I tend to give detailed titles so I can recognise the state of the game. I enclose a snapshot of the games since the newest patch cycle.

[gwgardner]

You should definitely be a play-tester for the AI beta.  The powers that be are missing out if they don't get that AI beta to you, to wring it out good.
 
I don't buy air units either.  That's one minor thing I'd like to see changed in the game - much smaller air units, thus less immediate hit on PPs for purchase and reinforcement, and more usable on a regular basis.  Of course they would also have less impact, but still would be more fun to get to use them more.
 
Having played less than you, I will need to experiment more with different force mixes.  Currently I have relied heavily on infantry, thinking armor is just way to expensive for what it gains you.  I basically use it only for initial breakthroughs, which have to be exploited by the infantry.  Very plodding, and probably would fail against a human opponent.

[cpdeyoung]

I am going to test the game, and look forward to it.
 
I have played this game a lot, more than the games I played in the past.  It just caught me.  This afternoon I am starting an EAoR (early attack on Russia) and I am going to try and capture screen shots for an AAR.  I tend to forget the shots in the enjoyment of the game, but if I remember I will post it.
 
You will enjoy trying new force mixes.  The interaction between production and operations is one of the best part of this simulation.
 
Have fun

[doomtrader]

Were you also trying to play 1941 scenario?

[cpdeyoung]

I generally start with 1939, and have never tried one of the intermediate scenarios.  The AAR for EAoR is coming along, but it takes a lot of time.  I have taken that game into mid-March 1940, and will start posting the turns pretty soon.  The need to document each turn slows the game down, but I am learning as I go.
 
I am pleased to join the testing team and will fax the NDA back today.
 
Thanks for an addictive game.
 
Chuck

[doomtrader]

You are welcome cpdeyoung [:)]

[James Ward]

Assuming Barbarossa starts around the historical time I generally divide my army into 2 groups. One drives on Moscow/Leningrad and the other heads toward Kiev/Rostov. I like to be level 3 infantry and level 2 tank at a minimum.
I try to have 3 armored corps each with a leader, 2-3 armored divisions, 3-4 motorized divisions, a few infantry divisions for maintaining the line in the center and as many infantry corps as I can get. If possible I use Italians in Romania, as many corps as they can spare! I usually don't build any air units before the invasion.
I like the motorized divisions because of the movement and the fact that they are cheaper to build and maintain than corps. Just adding another hex to the attack is usually more beneficial than a few extra strength points and replacing losses can be expensive.
One time air units really help is with seiges. The side with air superiority has a much better chance of getting a favorable roll. It's tough to assault some coastal cities without getting the defender reduced first. You just can't get the odds in your favor with groud units alone.

[cpdeyoung]

Yep, one must have air units for those seiges!

In the scenario I showed with a snapshot above, where the French were in Grande Armée mode I really felt secure in my defensive positions.  The AI had been very quiet for turns, and I was really wondering what they were up to?  Suddenly my units around Brussels started disappearing one by one.  I studied the reports and found they were being blown away in 7-1 engagements. Four and five point Corps and divisions being attacked at 7-1?  I knew there were no Axis forces with 25+ points on a two hex front?  I found the answer in the Air activity reports as the AI was expending air points in massive amounts to pulverize my defenders.

If, and it is a big "If", you can afford them enough airpower endangers any hex.  I just feel I cannot usually afford them.

Chuck