Allied Oil Requirements

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: turkey

Hi. I'm playing allies in the full scenario, latest mod and I've been taking out all the oil I can from DEI and shipping to Darwin.

Not sure which scenario you are playing. Do you mean stock (Scenario 15) or a mod such as CHS 155?

I stock, it ill be distributed but shouldn't, no railway from Darwin. In CHS in won't as rtrapasso said, part of its a road through Alice, and track through Cloncurry. You must ship it.

I can't remember stock, its been over a year since I did but in IMO in my lastest CHS as Japan it's resources that are the priority. Oil I seem to have lots off, in fact I said this in an ealier thread, I don't have enough TKs to ship it all.

[engineer]

In stock, the Japanese will be limited by oil. Taking the SRA you will end up with 2300 to 2500 oil field points that will give you 13800 to 15000 oil per turn.  You can probably capture about 17000 resource points in the historical Japanese conquests.  You can get more by expanding into China or a successful offensive into India or Australia.  Your HI starts around 12000+ so there is head room for you to expand your industry partway toward the oil cap.  I wouldn't take expanding HI all the way since eventually the Allies are likely to cut off the Home Islands from the SRA so you'll need an oil stockpile in the Home Islands to continue your industry until the clock runs out.  A lot has to do with how quickly and effectively you overrun the Allied defenses so they don't have a chance to demolish the mines and wells before you occupy them. So you have a little room to increase industry, but you should have several thousand surplus resources per day coming into your economy.  EDIT: Those surplus points can be useful as a forward supply dump since they spawn supplies at 1% of the resource stockpile and they save the shipping of hauling it back to Japan.

The other eastern DEI oil center in stock is Sorong at the western tip of New Guinea.

My understanding is that in CHS the limit is resources. 

[turkey]

Thanks all. Its stock Scenario 15 PBEM as allies so I'll keep on shipping out that oil dirrect to the HI centres, Sydney etc and I am fighting for all resource and oil centres in DEI so I hope to damage a good few in the retreat.
 
Anyone got any good ideas on what to do to counter the Betties? [&:]
 

[Ambassador]

B-17 & B-24.[;)]

[rtrapasso]

Not sure which scenario you are playing. Do you mean stock (Scenario 15) or a mod such as CHS 155?

I stock, it ill be distributed but shouldn't, no railway from Darwin.

NO - IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MOVE IN STOCK - despite the presence of RR in the stock map. You have to move it yourself (by ship), unless there have been drastic revisions from 1.80 to 1.806 (and i think i would have probably heard of it.) Supplies will move (a bit) but not oil and resources.

IF someone has actually gotten oil/resources to redistribute automatically in stock from Darwin, i would like to hear of it.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Not sure which scenario you are playing. Do you mean stock (Scenario 15) or a mod such as CHS 155?

I stock, it ill be distributed but shouldn't, no railway from Darwin.

NO - IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MOVE IN STOCK - despite the presence of RR in the stock map. You have to move it yourself (by ship), unless there have been drastic revisions from 1.80 to 1.806 (and i think i would have probably heard of it.) Supplies will move (a bit) but not oil and resources.

IF someone has actually gotten oil/resources to redistribute automatically in stock from Darwin, i would like to hear of it.

Long time since i played a stock, but if that's the case it's working as it should dispite the railway.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: turkey

Anyone got any good ideas on what to do to counter the Betties? [&:]

Early in the game very little other than bombing their bases or staying out of the Betties normal range.

LR cap over a TF helps but most allied fighter are short legged so mostly ineffective. Those that arn't are cannon fodder for any Zeros. One trick that does work to a degree is small TFs (1 or 2 ships). Another is to load in one trun and go the next, irrespective of being full. If you are sending a TF to a base have it disband into the port (must be level 3 to do this), reassemble next turn and go the next. Boils down to spending as little time as possible loading.

Playing the AI all these work well against a PBEM they work until spotted then, aaah! another ship gone. Comes a point when the term 'is it worth it' comes into play.

[canadaexile]

Thanks for all the imput. I started to move oil to Australia, but kept the tankers togeather. I hoped to distribute the oil from Sydney/Perth etc by sea.
Made the mistake of not reviewing my task force direction and landed it straight into the path of some jap bombers out of the Gillbert Islands. Learnt the hard way there.
Now I am busy building up Barker Island to provide CAP whilst diverting my supplies south to Fiji 

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: canadaexile

Thanks for all the imput. I started to move oil to Australia, but kept the tankers togeather. I hoped to distribute the oil from Sydney/Perth etc by sea.
Made the mistake of not reviewing my task force direction and landed it straight into the path of some jap bombers out of the Gillbert Islands. Learnt the hard way there.
Now I am busy building up Barker Island to provide CAP whilst diverting my supplies south to Fiji 

Sending a convoy directly to Aus from the West coast will always route it too close to Jap LBs. I think most set the home port to an Aus Base and a destination (hex or base) well clear or the LBs and set 'do not unload' until its past the destination. Last because it would unload at the destination otherwise. Not the destination could also be a fuelling stop.

Strange thing is that TFs will change their route to avoid subs but not a/c. Pity that but AE might.

[canadaexile]

That was exactly the mistake I made. I had seen the cargo task forces track the long way round to avoid jap subs near Aussie ports to supply PM. I hope that AE does implement this change as it seems stupid to carry out a recon of a jap held island and then ignore that intel!
Having said that, I suppose it happened for real in WW2.
 

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: canadaexile

Thanks for all the imput. I started to move oil to Australia, but kept the tankers togeather. I hoped to distribute the oil from Sydney/Perth etc by sea.
Made the mistake of not reviewing my task force direction and landed it straight into the path of some jap bombers out of the Gillbert Islands. Learnt the hard way there.
Now I am busy building up Barker Island to provide CAP whilst diverting my supplies south to Fiji 

Sending a convoy directly to Aus from the West coast will always route it too close to Jap LBs. I think most set the home port to an Aus Base and a destination (hex or base) well clear or the LBs and set 'do not unload' until its past the destination. Last because it would unload at the destination otherwise. Not the destination could also be a fuelling stop.

Strange thing is that TFs will change their route to avoid subs but not a/c. Pity that but AE might.

Back when I used the autoconvoy logic, I would have allied TFs divert through the Marshalls to avoid Japanese subs.

[hbrsvl]

engineer- A couple more questions on Allied production. Playing CHS, Allies, late 1/42.

Perth has 100 HI, no oil. I have several tankers on the way there. After the TKs unload their oil, how long does it take(in game days) for fuel & supplies to be produced? Reason for question-I need to reposition some AKs to load supplies.

Victoria,Canada has 20HI, no oil. Is it worth sending oil from US there?

Thanks, Hugh Browne

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: canadaexile

That was exactly the mistake I made. I had seen the cargo task forces track the long way round to avoid jap subs near Aussie ports to supply PM. I hope that AE does implement this change as it seems stupid to carry out a recon of a jap held island and then ignore that intel!
Having said that, I suppose it happened for real in WW2.

Many. Leaders have this tendancy to ignore intel that goes against what they have set their mind on or simply think is impluasable.

[engineer]

rtpasso
NO - IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MOVE IN STOCK - despite the presence of RR in the stock map. You have to move it yourself (by ship), unless there have been drastic revisions from 1.80 to 1.806 (and i think i would have probably heard of it.) Supplies will move (a bit) but not oil and resources.

IF someone has actually gotten oil/resources to redistribute automatically in stock from Darwin, i would like to hear of it.

 
I played 1.804 (? - last updated just over a year ago) as the Allies in stock and don't recall the resources moving out of Darwin.  I don't recall the oil moving out of Perth either.
 
I'm now playing the same version as the Japanese and oil and resources are moving all over the place within discrete segments of the Empire (Home Islands, China/Korea, Indochina/Malaya, etc.). 
 
 

[bradfordkay]

The oil doesn't move out of Perth - you have to move it yourself. It's just that the Perth-Sydney/Melbourne shipping route is likely to be relatively safe for your tankers after April '42 while Darwin-Sydney/Melbourne is likely to be a death trap. 

[engineer]

bradfordkay:
The oil doesn't move out of Perth - you have to move it yourself. It's just that the Perth-Sydney/Melbourne shipping route is likely to be relatively safe for your tankers after April '42 while Darwin-Sydney/Melbourne is likely to be a death trap. 

Amen to that.  The AI will default to a Coral Sea route unless you rebase to Sydney with a destination off Perth or thereabouts.  I was moving my Asiatic Fleet auxiliaries out of Darwin to Brisbane and the AI's KB caught their scent and ran them down just past the Torres Strait.  It was ugly - but my S boats ambushed the KB on the way back and sank the Soryu. 

I forget if production is at the beginning or end of the turn, but you should get production no later than the day after resources and oil are present in a heavy industry hex. The question for the Allies is that this is all on the margin. Is the shipping used to transfer the oil to get a marginal 20 points/day of supply and fuel a better strategy than that shipping used to incrementally increase fuel dumps at various Allied forward operating bases. My personal bias is to put the fuel forward where it is more likely to support offensive action and enhance the mobility of the fleet.

[USSAmerica]

A couple of points from my limited experience playing...

First...

ORIGINAL: engineer

rtrapasso
NO - IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MOVE IN STOCK - despite the presence of RR in the stock map. You have to move it yourself (by ship), unless there have been drastic revisions from 1.80 to 1.806 (and i think i would have probably heard of it.) Supplies will move (a bit) but not oil and resources.

IF someone has actually gotten oil/resources to redistribute automatically in stock from Darwin, i would like to hear of it.

I played 1.804 (? - last updated just over a year ago) as the Allies in stock and don't recall the resources moving out of Darwin.  I don't recall the oil moving out of Perth either.

I'm now playing the same version as the Japanese and oil and resources are moving all over the place within discrete segments of the Empire (Home Islands, China/Korea, Indochina/Malaya, etc.). 

Oil and Resources will automatically move along roads and railroads between bases, and always has. The point rtrapasso was making is that oil and resources will not automatically move between DARWIN and the HI bases in SE Australia. The reason it won't move between these particular bases, or Perth and Melbourne/Sydney, is that the railroad/road movement cost is greater than 100 points for the distance. The manual describes this, and is actually accurate about it. The bases are just too far apart.


Second point.....

ORIGINAL: hbrsvl

engineer- A couple more questions on Allied production. Playing CHS, Allies, late 1/42.

Perth has 100 HI, no oil. I have several tankers on the way there. After the TKs unload their oil, how long does it take(in game days) for fuel & supplies to be produced? Reason for question-I need to reposition some AKs to load supplies.

Victoria,Canada has 20HI, no oil. Is it worth sending oil from US there?

Thanks, Hugh Browne

Hugh, you may have this answer by now, but 100 HI points at Perth will create 100 supply points and 100 fuel points each turn IF you have 100 oil AND 100 resources there at the beginning of the turn. 99 points or less of either oil or supply will not allow the HI to function at all for that turn. It's been a long time since I looked at the Stock map, but I believe Perth may have some resource production.

As for Victoria, the only real reason to send some oil there, would be if there were also resources there, and the slow, 20/turn production of the HI can produce enough fuel and supply to keep that base stocked. In the larger picture, for this part of the world, you will never notice the overall difference that these extra 20 points of production will make.