IP play vs Real time

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: mr.godo

We do NOT want you to have more than one player playing at a time.

That's exactly what I want. I want to be able to do something, chat with opponents, make changes on the fly and then submit my turn while everyone else is doing their thing (diplomacy, dow's, economics, builds: mutually exclusive processes).

Actually, I didn't mean "not doing anything". I meant we weren't requiring that several people are actively interacting with the full game at the same time. They would be interacting only with their copy (until they hit the button to end the phase).

[mr.godo]

original: jclauder
I am a former programmer and IT project manager and know IP functionality could be added to this game. A quick and dirty method would be to take the PBEM file that is exported and send it via the network to the next players computer and then tie into the existing procedure for importing the PBEM file and load it in. Sure its crude, but it would work and with little additional code.

What next player? All the players. The game is designed such that all players receive all files all the time. I need the previous six player files in order to perform my turn. It's an ugly system.

Maybe I'm missing something. I appreciate that there will be a time saving via IP, but in comparison to PBEM done with a number of people online, that time savings isn't really appreciable because of the time spent waiting for all the other players to finish their turn. How long does it take to bundle up a file, email it and then receive it? If that is what is stopping your crew from engaging in this game, then they aren't going to be too happy with all the waiting that is inherent in the design of the game.

If a turn takes me five minutes, for argument's sake, that leaves me with 30 minutes of nothing because everyone else is going to take five minutes give or take. No matter how fast you make the file transfer portion, there is still a whole lot of nothing in the game. Another facet is that you can't very well make plans if your opponent does something unexpected. Any discussions need to be made on the current situation, not what you thought at the end of your turn.

This game is not suited to IP play, which is why it wasn't implemented, which was a correct decision.

[obsidiandrag]

Actualy the FTF would be exactly like an IP game.. the other players are there to watch, diplomacise, and even take note of troop strengths if they are thinking of taking on one of the sides in a future conflict.  Study tactics and how that player will handle situations or battles to plan accordingly in the future.  The way it  is now, you might as well be playing vs AI as its quicker and you don't see anything from anyone else anyway...  I would rather be able to sit for a few hours and play several turns than one 5 minute turn and then wait another day or so for the next phase.  The only thing really left for the AI is to learn to work together with other MP's and then sharpen its teeth.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: obsidiandragon

Actualy the FTF would be exactly like an IP game.. the other players are there to watch, diplomacise, and even take note of troop strengths if they are thinking of taking on one of the sides in a future conflict.  Study tactics and how that player will handle situations or battles to plan accordingly in the future.  The way it  is now, you might as well be playing vs AI as its quicker and you don't see anything from anyone else anyway...  I would rather be able to sit for a few hours and play several turns than one 5 minute turn and then wait another day or so for the next phase.  The only thing really left for the AI is to learn to work together with other MP's and then sharpen its teeth.

Yes.

Mr. Godo, maybe jclauder has played the Board Game. If he has then he is quite famaliar with the design of the game in the sense that there is some time spent waiting for others to do their turns.

I would disagree that the file management system is trivial. For me, it is not.

I spend MORE TIME DOWNLOADING THE FILES, unzipping them, starting the game up THEN I DO ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME. This is not an overstatement, this is just the TRUTH. On top of that, once I'm done with my turn I have to exit the game, zip my file, send my file (email or upload the file to 3rd party file management site).

More time is spent managing files then playing the game. That is a major problem, IMO.

[pzgndr]

This game is not suited to IP play, which is why it wasn't implemented, which was a correct decision.

Huh? It wasn't implemented - yet. It's on the ToDo list. Which is to say the game is as suited for IP play as it is for pbem play. It's just a file exchange issue basically, and should be implemented eventually. This isn't an either/or issue, the game can and should have both. Why would it be a correct decision to never implement?? In the Strategic Command series, players can play via TCP/IP or pbem and switch back and forth depending on their availability. No problem.

Everyone keeps focussing on 6+ players and missing what I think would be the more common use for IP, 2-4 players.

I agree this may become popular for many players, and moreso for shorter scenarios once they are available and the AI becomes more challenging. [8D]

[jclauder]

What next player? All the players. The game is designed such that all players receive all files all the time. I need the previous six player files in order to perform my turn. It's an ugly system.

Maybe I'm missing something. I appreciate that there will be a time saving via IP, but in comparison to PBEM done with a number of people online, that time savings isn't really appreciable because of the time spent waiting for all the other players to finish their turn. How long does it take to bundle up a file, email it and then receive it? If that is what is stopping your crew from engaging in this game, then they aren't going to be too happy with all the waiting that is inherent in the design of the game.

If a turn takes me five minutes, for argument's sake, that leaves me with 30 minutes of nothing because everyone else is going to take five minutes give or take. No matter how fast you make the file transfer portion, there is still a whole lot of nothing in the game. Another facet is that you can't very well make plans if your opponent does something unexpected. Any discussions need to be made on the current situation, not what you thought at the end of your turn.

This game is not suited to IP play, which is why it wasn't implemented, which was a correct decision.

Mr. godo, the system would be modified to pass all the files to the players computer who's turn it is. The player would not have to zip any files or transfer them to the other computers as that is the function of the LAN and software additions to the existing game. You would simplly have to click the end turn and everything would automatically be transferred to the next computer and loaded automatically.

[larrywrose]

Has anybody brought up the idea of IP play just for battles? I personally think that would be a major improvement. 
 
Larry W. Rose 

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: larrywrose

Has anybody brought up the idea of IP play just for battles? I personally think that would be a major improvement. 

Larry W. Rose 

I am a huge proponent of IP play. But I think for the opponents of it, the original argument still stands for this:

Why not just use email, it's almost just as fast if both are on at the same time?

That seems to be their party's line.

[larrywrose]

Well you could bring up the fact that IP play just for the battles resolves the security issues. If you are both synced up and then you select done after chits are picked and your opponet keeps losing connection, you might want to find a replacement player. [8D] Also I think IP battles would bring more excitement to the game. The email thing is functional, but I find it tedious. I have to recieve an email, download a file, move the file to the battles directory, load the game, click on the battle, take my losses, commit the guard or not, close the game, open up my email, attach a file, wait till my opponet puts his daughter to bed before he responds. I find once the chits are known that the rest of the wait is not really all that fun. And if you have been out smarted on the chit choice it becomes a lets get this over with situation. If you could do just the battle via IP the fight is over in less than 5 minutes. Now you can post the results and go on.
 
Honestly I don't see a real need for IP for the rest of the game. Most games are with people in different time zones and can't get together at the same time. I would like to see more of a file upload/download system like they use in Out of the Park Baseball for example. That would be an excellent change. 30 Players in a baseball league all have a designated FTP point for all files. The program goes there and puts your turn there when you are done and goes there and pulls down your turns. If we could designate an FTP site and then hit import all turns and the game knows to go to the FTP site zip and upzip, that would make things a lot simpler. The whole idea of computers is to give the drudge work to the program.
 
Larry W. Rose

[easterner]

Larry W. Rose

Honestly I don't see a real need for IP for the rest of the game.

I do, so do others. So please try not to slam the door in our face. I despise PBEM you don't see me running a campaign to stamp it out. I don't see the need for Computer EiA to match original exactly, but I'm not opposed to it being done, several things lost to pbem-playability I miss.  I like most of the new changes, I do want more changes, I do want more options.

I've played CIV IV with IP, it worked fine as did BIRTH of the FEDERATION.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: larrywrose

Honestly I don't see a real need for IP for the rest of the game. Most games are with people in different time zones and can't get together at the same time.

Larry W. Rose

Bingo!! This is what they say too.

[Marshall Ellis]

Actually guys, if we add IP to battles then we would just add for the whole game.
 

[obsidiandrag]

I think IP would fix a whole world of issues with forgetting to check those darn boxes for situations that you didn't think would or could happen...
like being prussia and loosing your alliance with england because turkey declared war on them to recover from a lapse of war with egypt and england called you as an ally but you never thought of turkey declaring on england so you never checked to accept the call (not that you wanted to go to war with turkey but its better than loosing your paycheck for the french war by losing your ally to a technicality).
So I can't help but wish for an eventual IP system where 3 or 4 people with AI filling the bill could sit at the computer one evening a week and knock out 6 months of game time (or more if at peace), and the realtime issues can be addressed real time and not by trying to remember to check all those crazy options boxes for situations that may never happen ( or not check for the ones that will ).